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[Music]

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explode the bazaar or e-ticket ride into

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the world of a paranoid strap yourself

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in as we traverse the universe exploring

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the unexplained UFO s ghost lost world

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cryptozoology as well as other

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dimensions it's time to take back the

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night and night

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now your electrifying hosts exploring

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the bizarre Timothy Beckley and Kings

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Wow I provide this is the best birthday

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party ever

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my eyes are popping out as much as you

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expected I can't wait to see that

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oh my part of a cake looks so delicious

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yeah my ass is rusting on my fingers now

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so I better go and get it more Theriot

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is too short carry on

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oh my god grows I'm coming don't party

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without me hold on over there been a

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minute oh okay well I guess that Tim

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Beckley won't be joining us tonight it

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is his birthday and I guess it's oh I

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guess his right to have a party next

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door but I don't know if I was invited

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or not maybe after maybe after we

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complete the Showalter uh we could we

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could we can sneak in and join Beckley's

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party so well welcome to exploring the

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bazaar it's a it's another Thursday

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night and I'm Tim Schwartz tonight we we

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have a fantastic I guess we have mr.

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Walter Bosley Walter has been on the

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show before but I'll just give you a

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little bit of an introduction well

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Walter is a world traveling author and

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Explorer of the extraordinary phenomena

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he was born in San Diego and he served

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as a counterintelligence specialist

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during the final years of the Cold War

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for the FBI and served as a special

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agent for the Air Force Office of

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Special Investigations running counter

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espionage operations now Walter his

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latest book which we're going to be

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talking about tonight is shimmering

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white lost in an MK ULTRA house of a new

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love that title now Walter also spends

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his time writing fiction and nonfiction

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as well and he told me now mentioned

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this he's also known for producing

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directing short films such as hells

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bells sloppy dead seconds and he was

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also the writer for the Blooey the

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cuckoo in the clock

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directed by Paul Kimball so Walter thank

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you for being with me tonight on

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exploring the bizarre it's great to be

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here Tim

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I'm forward to our talk all right so I

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have you have you made any more films

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recently or were did you like you know

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should shoot at all at that time and

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just got it out of your system

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oh no no no filmmaking has been in my

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system since I was 11 years old yeah I

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just have been so busy on the books that

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you know takes a lot of energy and other

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resources or make movie happen so what I

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am doing I will say regarding the films

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is I am recutting hels belles my silent

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film because I discovered that there's

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another story that was buried it you

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know in the subtext of what I was

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consciously shooting Brian I don't have

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to shoot another frame of film all I

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have to do is rearrange the editing and

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it's a it's virtually a new film it's

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it's I've never had an experience like

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this and I can't wait to finish it I'm

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about halfway through this new cut and

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when it is complete it will probably

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premiere on Ola Phillips OSI 74 channels

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for those of you familiar with that and

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I'm reliable yeah oh yeah but I want to

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do more this summer I'm going to be

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starting a web documentary on my Empire

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of the wheel book series so that's

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exciting

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oh my gosh that that sounds like that's

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going to be a massive undertaking well

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I'm right here and you know I live in

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the San Bernardino Valley so I'm here

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where all the locations are at and you

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know I think it will it'll it I

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guarantee you it will

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look like it cost me more than it

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actually did huh well okay now you know

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my let my video geek show here so now

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what what kind of format

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have you been working with you know

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video wise with your your earlier films

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and you know your your planned ones in

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the future well I've really just been

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working with a Sony Handycam

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a C x16 whatever basically it shoots in

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1080 and I did a theatrical screening

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premiere of my silent film when I first

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finished it in 2012 and I can tell you

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on the big screen it looked fantastic so

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I just you know I work with a handycam

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and you know it works for me I would

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love to you know shoot something on the

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new DSLR oh yeah kind of that my adopted

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kid just bought and we do her

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photography on that and I'm able to use

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my lenses from my old SLR on that camera

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so I'm going to be able to do some even

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better looking films with that here in

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the future so maybe my next feature will

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be on that mmm well that's that's nice

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to be able to swap out these your your

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old SLR lenses into into this new into

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the new format I didn't realize you

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could do that with some of these I'll

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look into that

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we buy I bought the the all I forget the

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technics it's a the adapter force right

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yeah that my lenses will will fit into

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the DSLR housing in it it works

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fantastic but the visuals are just just

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what we want them and so I'm really we

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haven't shot a movie on it yet but you

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know I hope to do that for my next

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feature with that camera

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well fantastic I can't wait to to see

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your reality

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project and and your new ones in the

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future you'll have to let me know when

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they reacted when the comes out on Olaf

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so I'll be letting everybody know about

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it

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all right well okay let's uh before

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before we lose our audience who came in

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here to hear about shimmering light I

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want to go back a little bit the last

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time that you were on the show you you

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made a brief mention unfortunately we're

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almost out of time and couldn't really

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get into it too much and and this was I

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guess research in part from your was at

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the Empire Empire the wheel stories are

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books or part of origins I can't

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remember but you made a discovery in

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some old paintings that I think other

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people had overlooked you want to tell

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us a little bit about that

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absolutely this was a result of my

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research into the Senora arrow Club and

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Charles Dell shall the artist who

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documented he's actually our sole

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original source of documentation on this

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group of German immigrants who in the

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1850s the decade before the American

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Civil War were allegedly experimenting

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with anti-gravity flying craft

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technology that which they called arrows

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a ero and in Del shells artwork from the

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flying machines in the 1850s there is

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clearly an image that well let me put it

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this way let me tell you what del shall

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presented this as the propulsion device

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the operative mechanism that made these

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flying machines work okay it provided an

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energy it produces the anti-gravity

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effect and he depicted this in one of

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his pieces of artwork and when you look

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at the image I I

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actually show this in my book origin

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okay the 19th century emergence of the

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20th century breakaway civilizations

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that's a mouthful in my book I present

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this image and it is bell-shaped it

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spins on the central axis and Dell shall

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even described it as using a very secret

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fluid that only its inventor knew the

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ingredients of now essentially we're

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talking about a description of the Bell

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this thing is bell-shaped

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it's a Nazi bell the Nazi bell of the

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1930s and 40s now here's what's

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interesting

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you know it's bell-shaped it spins on a

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central axis it uses this mysterious and

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it produces an anti-gravity effect well

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again that's right there a basic

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description of the Nazi bell but Charles

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del shell did this artwork sometime

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between 1890 and 1920 now this is

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decades prior to the Nazis and even

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rumors of this Bell that they were

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working on and of course it's a German

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organization that was backing in funding

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what these guys were doing in the 1850s

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and I get into all of that in origin I I

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lay out the pedigree the true pedigree

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of the secret space program and the

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breakaway civilizations it this stuff

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didn't just start with world war ii

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Muskies in the post-world war ii

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military-industrial complex it goes back

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you know to the mid 19th century and

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before and i had found this drawing in

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there's one book it's put out by a

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gentleman named steven romano it's an

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excellent book i highly recommend it to

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everybody it is a full-color several

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pages thick hardcover book of all of I

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think most of del shells artwork of

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these flying machines and there it was

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you know right there in this book and so

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you know it kind of reset

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what we have assumed and what has been

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presented about the Nazi bell

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if the pedigree of this technology

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you know traces back to a German group

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in the 1850s you know what does that say

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about the history of the Nazis what does

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that say about really the history of the

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space program in all of this well it

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also I mean what about the history of

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what we consider modern technology

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because I mean what has been written

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about the Bell if they had developed

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something like that back you know into

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the 1850s I mean we're talking about I

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mean they had to have some kind of

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energy system you know electricity or

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what have you they had to have some way

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of I suppose refining and and using

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mercury because it wasn't supposed to be

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mercury with the mysterious fluid go

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ahead well well this particular fluid

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apparently you know remains mysterious

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nobody knows if mercury was in it now

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you got to remember the thing that Dell

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shall draws and depicts is a rudimentary

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proof-of-concept version of the Bell

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it's it's not it's not equivalent to

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what the Nazi scientists would have been

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doing in the 1930s okay so I did not

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need all the electricity why was you

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know assumed to be required for the Nazi

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bell okay this was this was a much more

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simple version of the Bell but the basic

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principle was there for all we know all

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they had to do was just start this thing

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spinning and could have with their hand

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just started spinning and you know the

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the basic elements of the mechanism

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itself could have been enough to give

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them their effect remember the arrows of

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the 1850s Senhora arrow club when you

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look at these images and I lay out a

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graphic in my book origin to simplify

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this okay I show that the 1850

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arrow is analogous to the Model T in the

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automobile world okay and then when you

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go 40 years later and you're into the

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1890s airship history those eighteen

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nineties airships are analogous to say a

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1958 Buick okay and then when you go you

273
00:15:02,010 --> 00:14:58,690
know what is it 50 years later 40 years

274
00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:02,020
later 60 and you get what we see is the

275
00:15:07,410 --> 00:15:04,480
classic flying-saucer well that's kind

276
00:15:10,530 --> 00:15:07,420
of analogous to a 1985 Porsche now

277
00:15:12,930 --> 00:15:10,540
you're compared yet 85 Porsche to the 58

278
00:15:15,510 --> 00:15:12,940
Buick and then compare the 58 Buick to

279
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:15,520
the Model T okay and you've got the same

280
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:19,570
thing as a modern UFO to the 1890s

281
00:15:26,670 --> 00:15:24,010
airship mystery airships to the 1850s

282
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:26,680
little arrow contraption okay it's the

283
00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:29,050
same kind of progression so but people

284
00:15:32,670 --> 00:15:30,310
have to understand that when we're

285
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:32,680
talking about this in the 850 we're not

286
00:15:36,930 --> 00:15:35,050
talking about the exact same level of

287
00:15:39,060 --> 00:15:36,940
development we're talking about the

288
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:39,070
proof-of-concept model and that would

289
00:15:47,310 --> 00:15:44,850
also apply to this version and the bell

290
00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:47,320
now you have a lot of people who have

291
00:15:55,140 --> 00:15:51,970
looked at dealt sells paintings and you

292
00:15:58,829 --> 00:15:55,150
know just commented is they look like

293
00:16:01,110 --> 00:15:58,839
yeah fairy tale drawings and you know

294
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:01,120
like so something from a comic book or

295
00:16:09,660 --> 00:16:03,610
yeah or something something along those

296
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:09,670
lines I mean do you think that I mean

297
00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:11,890
did he produce any idea I mean I know

298
00:16:16,770 --> 00:16:13,630
that they were found basically just

299
00:16:18,690 --> 00:16:16,780
dumped on a curbside is that so yeah I

300
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:18,700
mean we don't we don't really know a lot

301
00:16:22,220 --> 00:16:20,710
about you know the guy who made the

302
00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:22,230
paintings but I mean do you think that

303
00:16:28,230 --> 00:16:26,800
that he put these together you know for

304
00:16:30,390 --> 00:16:28,240
his own amusement

305
00:16:33,540 --> 00:16:30,400
took artistic license that sort of thing

306
00:16:37,010 --> 00:16:33,550
or just you know or you know he was

307
00:16:42,620 --> 00:16:37,020
trying to produce these as accurately as

308
00:16:45,329 --> 00:16:42,630
his artistic ability would let him

309
00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:45,339
personally I'm convinced that he was not

310
00:16:49,850 --> 00:16:47,670
just making this up that you

311
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:49,860
not just doing this as an outsider

312
00:16:56,750 --> 00:16:54,090
artist and here's the interesting thing

313
00:17:00,770 --> 00:16:56,760
the fact that I can point to a depiction

314
00:17:04,310 --> 00:17:00,780
of the Bell from his drawings that are

315
00:17:08,930 --> 00:17:04,320
decades prior to the Nazi scientists

316
00:17:10,610 --> 00:17:08,940
working on this thing to me is actually

317
00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:10,620
evidence that there was something more

318
00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:13,710
to it now this is supposing that you

319
00:17:19,310 --> 00:17:17,220
accept the existence of the Bell okay

320
00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:19,320
I'm going to for the purpose of this

321
00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:21,090
conversation I'm presuming that the

322
00:17:26,210 --> 00:17:23,150
listeners are interested in this stuff

323
00:17:29,450 --> 00:17:26,220
you know generally like the folks you're

324
00:17:30,620 --> 00:17:29,460
talking about the naysayers I you know

325
00:17:32,690 --> 00:17:30,630
that's great

326
00:17:34,370 --> 00:17:32,700
there's for me there's someone to have a

327
00:17:35,810 --> 00:17:34,380
beer with maybe go to a football game

328
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:35,820
but I just don't discuss these kinds of

329
00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:37,650
things with him because you know there's

330
00:17:42,770 --> 00:17:40,710
no convincing them and you know they'll

331
00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:42,780
scowl really didn't provide anything

332
00:17:48,050 --> 00:17:44,850
other than his drawing so I can

333
00:17:50,540 --> 00:17:48,060
understand why people just you know

334
00:17:53,710 --> 00:17:50,550
dismiss it in oh it's just art it means

335
00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:53,720
nothing okay I'm convinced otherwise and

336
00:17:58,940 --> 00:17:57,210
for me the the evidence that there was

337
00:18:00,680 --> 00:17:58,950
more to it that there was something real

338
00:18:03,650 --> 00:18:00,690
that he was trying to convey and

339
00:18:06,020 --> 00:18:03,660
document is the presence of the

340
00:18:09,830 --> 00:18:06,030
essential Bell technology were talking

341
00:18:12,730 --> 00:18:09,840
80 years before the Nazis were alleged

342
00:18:17,150 --> 00:18:12,740
to have been experimenting with this and

343
00:18:21,650 --> 00:18:17,160
think about it it makes sense I've woven

344
00:18:24,290 --> 00:18:21,660
a German thread from the 1850s aero club

345
00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:24,300
guys through the rest of the 19th

346
00:18:30,470 --> 00:18:27,150
century into the early 20th century and

347
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:30,480
specifically to you know the really the

348
00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:32,610
main influences on the formation of the

349
00:18:37,850 --> 00:18:34,770
Nazi Party so you know the threat is

350
00:18:41,180 --> 00:18:37,860
there the evidence is there the pedigree

351
00:18:45,410 --> 00:18:41,190
is there people are just going to have

352
00:18:49,070 --> 00:18:45,420
to you know look at it and let it sink

353
00:18:51,500 --> 00:18:49,080
in and let it Stoke in that okay you

354
00:18:54,290 --> 00:18:51,510
know this stuff didn't start in a cume

355
00:18:57,260 --> 00:18:54,300
with these guys in Nazi Germany right

356
00:18:59,900 --> 00:18:57,270
right well I mean the whole concept that

357
00:19:00,890 --> 00:18:59,910
there could actually have been heavier

358
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:00,900
than

359
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:02,850
our flying machines long before the

360
00:19:09,950 --> 00:19:07,170
Wright brothers is enough to know send

361
00:19:11,410 --> 00:19:09,960
send most people you know hiding their

362
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:11,420
heads in the pepillo

363
00:19:17,330 --> 00:19:14,730
history actually history shows that

364
00:19:19,310 --> 00:19:17,340
there were guys before the Wright

365
00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:19,320
brothers that were you know working on

366
00:19:25,610 --> 00:19:22,050
stuff accepted history there was a base

367
00:19:27,260 --> 00:19:25,620
in San Diego oh my gosh of course his

368
00:19:29,030 --> 00:19:27,270
name escapes me there was a movie made

369
00:19:32,510 --> 00:19:29,040
about him in the 50s I think with Glenn

370
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:32,520
Ford and um you know so this was being

371
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:34,080
done it's just you know the Wright

372
00:19:43,540 --> 00:19:37,410
brothers did their little what was it 20

373
00:19:46,370 --> 00:19:43,550
yards or something in that is that so

374
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:46,380
you know but but we know we know how it

375
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:47,810
goes

376
00:19:52,940 --> 00:19:50,880
there's the the the whole saga of Nikola

377
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:52,950
Tesla and the credit II didn't get for

378
00:19:56,270 --> 00:19:54,570
you know a lot of things that's just

379
00:19:59,300 --> 00:19:56,280
that that's just the way it is in our

380
00:20:01,430 --> 00:19:59,310
world but it is it you're right you

381
00:20:03,950 --> 00:20:01,440
bring up a very good point it is kind of

382
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:03,960
a shocker to people that they would have

383
00:20:09,980 --> 00:20:06,690
to rethink history and some people just

384
00:20:12,010 --> 00:20:09,990
don't want to and that's okay well I

385
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:12,020
mean and it's not so much you know

386
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:15,330
rethinking history because we're dealing

387
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:17,970
with a group that deliberately did not

388
00:20:24,170 --> 00:20:21,090
want this to get out you know a they

389
00:20:25,790 --> 00:20:24,180
weren't out going to the newspapers you

390
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:25,800
know saying hey look what we done I mean

391
00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:28,770
they they worked in secret and with the

392
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:31,980
exception of their occasional I uh I

393
00:20:38,090 --> 00:20:33,570
guess cross-country flights

394
00:20:39,380 --> 00:20:38,100
you know when over him you know people

395
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:39,390
were bored to seeing him all over you

396
00:20:43,150 --> 00:20:41,130
know cities and everything like that I

397
00:20:46,460 --> 00:20:43,160
mean this was a group that was

398
00:20:52,580 --> 00:20:46,470
deliberately keeping their activities

399
00:20:54,050 --> 00:20:52,590
secrets yes and you know so um and you

400
00:20:55,310 --> 00:20:54,060
know we've got about probably about you

401
00:20:56,810 --> 00:20:55,320
know three and half minutes ago here

402
00:21:01,600 --> 00:20:56,820
before we go to our break but don't mean

403
00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:01,610
why the United States I mean

404
00:21:09,049 --> 00:21:05,220
why do this in the u.s. at that time I

405
00:21:14,149 --> 00:21:09,059
have an answer for that at that time the

406
00:21:17,029 --> 00:21:14,159
the US was the place that was the

407
00:21:20,590 --> 00:21:17,039
farthest away they could get from from

408
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:20,600
the prying eyes in Europe with the most

409
00:21:28,639 --> 00:21:24,330
resources to allow them to pursue this

410
00:21:30,379 --> 00:21:28,649
and they chose California the Sonora

411
00:21:31,940 --> 00:21:30,389
Aero Club did they chose California

412
00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:31,950
which is as far away as you could get

413
00:21:37,190 --> 00:21:34,710
from the main population of the United

414
00:21:38,810 --> 00:21:37,200
States at that time so really it was to

415
00:21:40,909 --> 00:21:38,820
just be as far away as they could get

416
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:40,919
from prying eyes but yet still have

417
00:21:46,759 --> 00:21:44,129
readily ready access to the resources

418
00:21:49,220 --> 00:21:46,769
necessary mmm quiet and all them people

419
00:21:52,340 --> 00:21:49,230
realize that you know there there was a

420
00:21:53,930 --> 00:21:52,350
you know like very big you can't really

421
00:21:56,210 --> 00:21:53,940
say German because Germany did really

422
00:21:57,799 --> 00:21:56,220
exist but you know austria-hungary you

423
00:22:01,759 --> 00:21:57,809
know people probably also a hungry

424
00:22:02,779 --> 00:22:01,769
Empire Empire you know I in in that part

425
00:22:03,499 --> 00:22:02,789
they're going to cross show you right

426
00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:03,509
right

427
00:22:12,590 --> 00:22:07,710
and as well as military intelligence as

428
00:22:14,930 --> 00:22:12,600
well so and also think about really you

429
00:22:17,810 --> 00:22:14,940
know Americans back in the 1850s

430
00:22:20,539 --> 00:22:17,820
I would daresay are a lot more were a

431
00:22:23,180 --> 00:22:20,549
lot more free than we are in certain

432
00:22:25,879 --> 00:22:23,190
ways so they had the complete autonomist

433
00:22:28,460 --> 00:22:25,889
freedom to operate in much greater

434
00:22:32,029 --> 00:22:28,470
secrecy back then there so I think

435
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:32,039
that's why they chose it well it's it's

436
00:22:37,639 --> 00:22:36,090
fascinating and well when would we come

437
00:22:40,639 --> 00:22:37,649
back for a break we've got a minute

438
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:40,649
about a minute to go you know in this

439
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:43,049
segment of the program let's so I want

440
00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:46,850
to get more into your most recent book

441
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,710
shimmering light because you know it

442
00:22:53,409 --> 00:22:51,600
seems to me that that there all the

443
00:22:55,879 --> 00:22:53,419
research that you have previously done

444
00:22:58,700 --> 00:22:55,889
you know Empire the wheel origins

445
00:23:01,850 --> 00:22:58,710
everything like that has really led up

446
00:23:03,710 --> 00:23:01,860
to this most you to your current book

447
00:23:07,789 --> 00:23:03,720
and even though I know that the main

448
00:23:11,299 --> 00:23:07,799
story you originally wrote about in fate

449
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:11,309
magazine and when was that originally

450
00:23:18,070 --> 00:23:13,410
published was 1980

451
00:23:23,450 --> 00:23:18,080
six something like no no it was it was

452
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:23,460
2005 2005 okay okay okay I'm I mean I've

453
00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:25,110
been a longtime subscriber to fake

454
00:23:29,330 --> 00:23:26,910
magazine so I mean I distinctly remember

455
00:23:31,730 --> 00:23:29,340
that that story and it always been

456
00:23:34,670 --> 00:23:31,740
fascinated by it and fascinated also

457
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:34,680
that's I ended up knowing you so when we

458
00:23:39,100 --> 00:23:36,090
come back we will continue our

459
00:23:41,900 --> 00:23:39,110
conversation with Walter Bosley and

460
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:41,910
you're asleep to exploring the bizarre

461
00:23:57,080 --> 00:23:53,760
so stay tuned now back to exploring the

462
00:23:59,990 --> 00:23:57,090
bizarre with two of the most under fire

463
00:24:07,430 --> 00:24:00,000
researchers in the Paranoid your hostess

464
00:24:09,050 --> 00:24:07,440
Timothy Bekele and team Schwartz welcome

465
00:24:12,230 --> 00:24:09,060
back to exploring the bizarre I'm Tim

466
00:24:15,020 --> 00:24:12,240
Schwartz and from the sound of it it

467
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:15,030
sounds still sounds like that Tim

468
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:17,970
Buckley is partying in the room that

469
00:24:23,990 --> 00:24:21,510
store hopefully Walter will be some beer

470
00:24:26,030 --> 00:24:24,000
left for us by the time the show is over

471
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:26,040
with sounds like that the rate that

472
00:24:32,060 --> 00:24:29,250
they're going there may not be and all

473
00:24:34,100 --> 00:24:32,070
that come I'll just I'll just put that

474
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:34,110
out there now and just say it you know

475
00:24:40,690 --> 00:24:37,170
there better be some beer left it's all

476
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:40,700
I'm going to say for now all right

477
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:47,010
before we went to our break I referenced

478
00:24:52,790 --> 00:24:49,770
you're the fake magazine article that

479
00:24:59,630 --> 00:24:52,800
you wrote in 2005 under your pseudonym

480
00:25:03,680 --> 00:24:59,640
and this article was about a story that

481
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:03,690
your dad told you and and I know that I

482
00:25:09,460 --> 00:25:06,810
know it's been discussed you know on

483
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:09,470
this show and a lot of other shows but

484
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:11,610
it's an important point to bring up

485
00:25:18,710 --> 00:25:16,770
because it's really the the main part of

486
00:25:20,740 --> 00:25:18,720
your new book shimmering light so why

487
00:25:24,110 --> 00:25:20,750
don't you tell us a little bit about

488
00:25:26,330 --> 00:25:24,120
your this your original story that you

489
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:26,340
wrote for fate magazine and and what

490
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:26,970
made you

491
00:25:34,029 --> 00:25:30,030
decide to write it in the first place

492
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:34,039
because let's see in 2005 were you still

493
00:25:41,710 --> 00:25:36,330
were you still working for the the

494
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:41,720
government at that point I had I had

495
00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:45,510
employment that I had to be sensitive

496
00:25:50,299 --> 00:25:48,320
about my public persona okay or

497
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:50,309
organization that you know due to the

498
00:25:55,340 --> 00:25:53,610
clients you know we couldn't really be

499
00:25:59,419 --> 00:25:55,350
out there as a guy writing about weird

500
00:26:02,060 --> 00:25:59,429
stuff okay so I used what was you know

501
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:02,070
the the pseudonym course that I had come

502
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:05,850
up with I don't use it anymore as a

503
00:26:09,529 --> 00:26:07,650
matter of fact there's a couple of works

504
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:09,539
of fiction that I'm about to re-release

505
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:12,960
and just put my name on them but that

506
00:26:20,750 --> 00:26:17,610
was the circumstance of that I will say

507
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:20,760
that actually I haven't really discussed

508
00:26:25,549 --> 00:26:23,010
this book on a lot of shows this what's

509
00:26:28,299 --> 00:26:25,559
weird about this book is the fact that

510
00:26:31,909 --> 00:26:28,309
it does involve a discussion you know

511
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:31,919
Roswell is in the mix and I don't know

512
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:33,600
if it's just the timing people have

513
00:26:38,930 --> 00:26:35,010
reached their saturation point with

514
00:26:42,169 --> 00:26:38,940
Roswell or what but what's odd is I

515
00:26:45,020 --> 00:26:42,179
really been asked to discuss it that

516
00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:45,030
much yet the people who have read it

517
00:26:51,980 --> 00:26:48,809
that are in our our genre the media

518
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:51,990
really find it fascinating and such but

519
00:26:56,930 --> 00:26:54,210
it's really curious there's something

520
00:26:58,460 --> 00:26:56,940
about this book that I think I've I

521
00:27:01,730 --> 00:26:58,470
don't know I think some people don't

522
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:01,740
know what to think about it well it I I

523
00:27:05,649 --> 00:27:03,570
can understand that because I mean you

524
00:27:08,570 --> 00:27:05,659
have a lot of people out there who are

525
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:08,580
involved the whole you know UFO mystery

526
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,650
that I mean they're you know they're

527
00:27:14,180 --> 00:27:12,240
tunnel vision they have their mind set

528
00:27:17,060 --> 00:27:14,190
to though it's it's centered you know

529
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:17,070
UFOs extraterrestrial UFOs paranormal

530
00:27:25,430 --> 00:27:19,890
you know what have you and I mean here

531
00:27:28,820 --> 00:27:25,440
you are going into an area that just you

532
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:28,830
know does it doesn't really involve you

533
00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:32,730
know any of these things and you know

534
00:27:38,539 --> 00:27:36,230
it's a lot like the whole you know a

535
00:27:40,159 --> 00:27:38,549
Bigfoot mystery you know physical or

536
00:27:40,820 --> 00:27:40,169
non-physical I mean you know people take

537
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:40,830
sides

538
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:42,690
and everything is polarized and I think

539
00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:45,450
it's the same way you know with what you

540
00:27:48,890 --> 00:27:46,890
know what you're writing about to me

541
00:27:50,390 --> 00:27:48,900
people people become so polarized like

542
00:27:53,690 --> 00:27:50,400
everything else it seems like anymore

543
00:27:56,420 --> 00:27:53,700
that you know they they don't want to

544
00:27:58,850 --> 00:27:56,430
talk about it it's charism maybe right

545
00:28:03,500 --> 00:27:58,860
well you know actually is since you've

546
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:03,510
read the book there is something weird

547
00:28:11,120 --> 00:28:07,650
that you know my dad he was adamant that

548
00:28:15,230 --> 00:28:11,130
they were not extraterrestrial but I

549
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:15,240
think what he claimed that he was told

550
00:28:22,460 --> 00:28:19,650
they were is equally as fascinating as

551
00:28:24,770 --> 00:28:22,470
anything extraterrestrial you know he of

552
00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:24,780
course claimed that this was a hidden

553
00:28:29,060 --> 00:28:26,820
civilization that coexists on this

554
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:29,070
planet with us from the subterranean

555
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:31,710
realms that's what he swore to the day

556
00:28:39,950 --> 00:28:35,910
he died that what crashed at Roswell was

557
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:39,960
a craft from such a civilization now in

558
00:28:43,340 --> 00:28:41,250
the book of course I explore the

559
00:28:45,230 --> 00:28:43,350
possibility that it could have been

560
00:28:48,050 --> 00:28:45,240
something more mundane and down-to-earth

561
00:28:51,220 --> 00:28:48,060
and I present the evidence for that

562
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:51,230
meaning you know the Operation Paperclip

563
00:28:58,730 --> 00:28:55,530
influence on our early space travel

564
00:29:01,160 --> 00:28:58,740
attempts and development of you know

565
00:29:05,860 --> 00:29:01,170
human space travel technology and such

566
00:29:09,410 --> 00:29:05,870
but in the end you know I come back and

567
00:29:11,630 --> 00:29:09,420
emphasize that my dad's or you know no

568
00:29:14,030 --> 00:29:11,640
he was he swore he was briefed at

569
00:29:17,350 --> 00:29:14,040
Roswell but it was this this hidden

570
00:29:23,270 --> 00:29:17,360
civilization and there's even evidence

571
00:29:27,500 --> 00:29:23,280
which I discussed about moons who that

572
00:29:31,910 --> 00:29:27,510
civilization might have been and and I

573
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:31,920
tried to kind of leave it open in the

574
00:29:45,110 --> 00:29:37,170
end you know regarding what I think my

575
00:29:47,390 --> 00:29:45,120
personal puddin is that it it's very

576
00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:47,400
difficult because there there is the

577
00:29:51,740 --> 00:29:49,350
evidence that it could very well have

578
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:51,750
been something more mundane and when I

579
00:29:56,530 --> 00:29:54,410
say mundane I don't really mean

580
00:30:00,670 --> 00:29:56,540
the mundane and how people would

581
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:00,680
interpret it I I mean a a classified

582
00:30:05,950 --> 00:30:03,770
first attempt at men's space travel

583
00:30:09,850 --> 00:30:05,960
that's not to be taken lightly that's

584
00:30:12,370 --> 00:30:09,860
not mundane really but compared to the

585
00:30:17,290 --> 00:30:12,380
extra-terrestrial assumption compared to

586
00:30:19,180 --> 00:30:17,300
my dad you know his version of it you

587
00:30:21,340 --> 00:30:19,190
know that a lot of people would be

588
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:21,350
disappointed to think oh it was just you

589
00:30:27,070 --> 00:30:24,320
know human astronauts you know maybe

590
00:30:29,860 --> 00:30:27,080
aboard a modified v2 or some other type

591
00:30:32,370 --> 00:30:29,870
of modified Horten you know wing shaped

592
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:32,380
craft and they don't want to hear that

593
00:30:40,060 --> 00:30:35,810
you know probably in my experience the

594
00:30:42,010 --> 00:30:40,070
most hated book on Roswell is Joseph

595
00:30:44,410 --> 00:30:42,020
Farrell's Roswell on the right and yet

596
00:30:47,380 --> 00:30:44,420
in my opinion that is also the best

597
00:30:50,650 --> 00:30:47,390
damned research book on Roswell

598
00:30:52,510 --> 00:30:50,660
anduril a of Sakura yeah they hate to

599
00:30:54,730 --> 00:30:52,520
hear that right now there's people

600
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:54,740
listening going bill head and speaking

601
00:30:59,980 --> 00:30:57,170
of magnets or their computers because

602
00:31:01,690 --> 00:30:59,990
they don't want to hear it was Joseph

603
00:31:04,540 --> 00:31:01,700
for the convention some years back about

604
00:31:05,620 --> 00:31:04,550
10 years ago or so and I won't name the

605
00:31:08,020 --> 00:31:05,630
individual but a very well-known

606
00:31:10,180 --> 00:31:08,030
luminary deal so it'll feel you know

607
00:31:11,950 --> 00:31:10,190
walked up introduced himself to Joseph

608
00:31:16,330 --> 00:31:11,960
and they were chatting and then it got

609
00:31:18,550 --> 00:31:16,340
the sour look on his face and and said

610
00:31:23,530 --> 00:31:18,560
you're not the guy that thinks you know

611
00:31:27,220 --> 00:31:23,540
the the Roswell was not ceased so you

612
00:31:30,490 --> 00:31:27,230
know people find it distasteful but you

613
00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:30,500
know I even with my dad's version and

614
00:31:37,330 --> 00:31:32,750
what I think about that and the things

615
00:31:39,970 --> 00:31:37,340
that I put in my book I still say that

616
00:31:44,620 --> 00:31:39,980
Joseph Farrell's theory that you know it

617
00:31:48,340 --> 00:31:44,630
was Nazi technology involved is a very

618
00:31:50,620 --> 00:31:48,350
valid one and again his book is the best

619
00:31:54,210 --> 00:31:50,630
researched and presented both on Roswell

620
00:31:58,450 --> 00:31:54,220
and I think that's what they don't like

621
00:32:01,990 --> 00:31:58,460
what Elly is any alternative possibility

622
00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:02,000
particularly when presents evidence like

623
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:06,310
does when did when did your dad first

624
00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:08,410
start talking to you about

625
00:32:16,890 --> 00:32:13,390
his experience about I would say seven

626
00:32:20,490 --> 00:32:16,900
years before the book the Roswell

627
00:32:23,660 --> 00:32:20,500
incident came out around 1973 hmm oh

628
00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:23,670
yeah well yeah that yeah at that time

629
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:25,960
nobody had heard the part we heard of

630
00:32:32,910 --> 00:32:30,370
Roswell I think very few if any and but

631
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:32,920
they you know he would talk to me and my

632
00:32:38,970 --> 00:32:36,210
sisters of course I on to it the most

633
00:32:40,650 --> 00:32:38,980
particularly when you know the film

634
00:32:42,420 --> 00:32:40,660
Close Encounters came out a few years

635
00:32:44,670 --> 00:32:42,430
later and then when the Roswell incident

636
00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:44,680
book came out by Berlitz and more and

637
00:32:47,910 --> 00:32:46,480
you know I showed it to him I said hey

638
00:32:49,740 --> 00:32:47,920
this is the thing you've been talking

639
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:49,750
about and I remember back then he kind

640
00:32:54,060 --> 00:32:52,090
of shook his head and said oh they're

641
00:32:58,980 --> 00:32:54,070
gonna they're these people are claiming

642
00:33:02,010 --> 00:32:58,990
it was you know aliens and back then we

643
00:33:04,710 --> 00:33:02,020
didn't use the et term popularly and he

644
00:33:10,110 --> 00:33:04,720
swore all those years that it was not at

645
00:33:12,810 --> 00:33:10,120
mr. terrestrial event so without his

646
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:12,820
involvement with with the situation

647
00:33:22,140 --> 00:33:15,490
though took place a number of years

648
00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:22,150
after 1947 yes was it so I mean so there

649
00:33:26,580 --> 00:33:24,190
was so he was saying that there was a

650
00:33:30,270 --> 00:33:26,590
second incident after Roswell that he

651
00:33:33,030 --> 00:33:30,280
was involved in yes in my dad joined the

652
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:33,040
Air Force in 1955 and this other

653
00:33:42,270 --> 00:33:36,610
incident was in 1958 according to him

654
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:42,280
and due to this incident he he and the

655
00:33:46,350 --> 00:33:45,130
other guys he was working with was

656
00:33:49,050 --> 00:33:46,360
taking the wright-patterson and

657
00:33:52,140 --> 00:33:49,060
according to his version they were

658
00:33:56,030 --> 00:33:52,150
briefed on what happened at Roswell in

659
00:33:59,190 --> 00:33:56,040
1947 in reference to the crash and shown

660
00:34:01,170 --> 00:33:59,200
you know the retrieved evidence and such

661
00:34:04,020 --> 00:34:01,180
now people say well what the heck is so

662
00:34:08,610 --> 00:34:04,030
special about your dad my dad was in the

663
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:08,620
aerospace or aviation medicine specialty

664
00:34:12,990 --> 00:34:11,410
in that command okay and when you look

665
00:34:16,950 --> 00:34:13,000
at the history of Operation Paperclip

666
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:16,960
itself you will find this is in the

667
00:34:20,909 --> 00:34:19,090
hitch this isn't you know Walter's

668
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:20,919
goofball ideas this is in the actual

669
00:34:24,300 --> 00:34:21,850
hitch

670
00:34:26,580 --> 00:34:24,310
okay of Operation Paperclip you will

671
00:34:30,690 --> 00:34:26,590
find two gentlemen Colonel Harry

672
00:34:33,420 --> 00:34:30,700
Armstrong and an Otis Benson that these

673
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:33,430
were two men who were among the main

674
00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:36,610
drivers of Operation Paperclip happening

675
00:34:40,890 --> 00:34:38,050
everybody thinks Operation Paperclip was

676
00:34:43,830 --> 00:34:40,900
all about primarily and nothing else

677
00:34:45,450 --> 00:34:43,840
about nothing else but the Manhattan

678
00:34:46,860 --> 00:34:45,460
Project the atom bomb and that's that's

679
00:34:49,890 --> 00:34:46,870
not the case that of course I wasn't

680
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:49,900
made part of it but what was driving it

681
00:34:56,660 --> 00:34:54,010
was at the time US Army Air Corps and

682
00:35:00,330 --> 00:34:56,670
then you know of course the US Air Force

683
00:35:02,810 --> 00:35:00,340
aviation medicine research they were the

684
00:35:05,460 --> 00:35:02,820
ones who were really pushing hard for

685
00:35:06,750 --> 00:35:05,470
Operation Paperclip to happen and they

686
00:35:09,990 --> 00:35:06,760
were the ones that benefited greatly

687
00:35:12,180 --> 00:35:10,000
from you know getting this catch of

688
00:35:14,130 --> 00:35:12,190
these German scientists now it started

689
00:35:16,170 --> 00:35:14,140
to bite them in the butt in the late 50s

690
00:35:18,060 --> 00:35:16,180
and going into the early 60s when some

691
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:18,070
of these guys you know it turned out

692
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:20,650
that their their Nazi past were a little

693
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:23,410
more involved than they had confessed to

694
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:25,570
and so the Air Force had a little bit of

695
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:28,210
egg on its face and had to get rid of

696
00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:31,930
some of these got basically you know the

697
00:35:37,550 --> 00:35:35,110
Operation Paperclip Nazis many of them

698
00:35:40,170 --> 00:35:37,560
were involved with German aviation

699
00:35:42,390 --> 00:35:40,180
science and and what they were digging

700
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:42,400
into what they were attempting to

701
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:46,570
develop was human space travel I mean

702
00:35:52,140 --> 00:35:48,010
dating back to they were doing in the

703
00:35:55,020 --> 00:35:52,150
30s okay and so by the 1950s which you

704
00:35:57,630 --> 00:35:55,030
have will US Air Force aviation medicine

705
00:36:00,300 --> 00:35:57,640
it sounds all innocuous and boring right

706
00:36:04,260 --> 00:36:00,310
but US Air Force aviation medicine is

707
00:36:07,100 --> 00:36:04,270
what was driving the American manned

708
00:36:10,650 --> 00:36:07,110
space effort from the very beginning and

709
00:36:14,010 --> 00:36:10,660
the Mercury program before NASA was ever

710
00:36:17,010 --> 00:36:14,020
created the Mercury program existed to

711
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:17,020
put a man in space and it was a US Air

712
00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:21,010
Force project okay and my dad was

713
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:24,180
involved in the development of the

714
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:27,850
pressure suits he was in aviation

715
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:31,930
medicine command and specifically he was

716
00:36:35,310 --> 00:36:34,090
a physiological training specialist what

717
00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:35,320
does that mean that means he and the

718
00:36:38,820 --> 00:36:36,310
guys who worked with

719
00:36:42,060 --> 00:36:38,830
man the altitude chamber at George air

720
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:42,070
phase in this particular case and they

721
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:45,280
also would be part of the education and

722
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:47,410
training for pilots who would be flying

723
00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:48,970
at high altitude so they would give them

724
00:36:54,750 --> 00:36:51,250
their you know the basic academic stuff

725
00:36:57,480 --> 00:36:54,760
on the effects of high altitude on you

726
00:36:59,850 --> 00:36:57,490
know human physiology and such and Otis

727
00:37:02,580 --> 00:36:59,860
Benson was the commander driving this

728
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:02,590
and his objective his goal was manned

729
00:37:09,750 --> 00:37:06,130
space travel okay and he was involved in

730
00:37:14,340 --> 00:37:09,760
all this stuff in the late 40s and into

731
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:14,350
the 50s of course and so if you worked

732
00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:16,930
in that specialty that my father worked

733
00:37:22,380 --> 00:37:19,510
in okay first of all you you'd have a

734
00:37:24,660 --> 00:37:22,390
high clearance which he did because he

735
00:37:28,740 --> 00:37:24,670
was working on you know early manned

736
00:37:34,050 --> 00:37:28,750
space issues along with the other stuff

737
00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:34,060
and you know so therefore that's why he

738
00:37:40,710 --> 00:37:37,450
was where he was at that's why you know

739
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:40,720
he wouldn't have been taken to Roswell

740
00:37:44,430 --> 00:37:42,730
according to his story and breathed in

741
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:44,440
and on this stuff it had me with his

742
00:37:50,250 --> 00:37:48,010
specialty okay so you know that's that's

743
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:50,260
his credentials and this stuff is in his

744
00:37:59,580 --> 00:37:54,010
dd-214 which i published in the book you

745
00:38:01,860 --> 00:37:59,590
know and it's it's all there and your

746
00:38:06,690 --> 00:38:01,870
your father was also dead he also

747
00:38:11,790 --> 00:38:06,700
claimed to be a a pilot of small

748
00:38:17,460 --> 00:38:11,800
aircraft helicopters he later um in in

749
00:38:21,210 --> 00:38:17,470
the last year of his life he started

750
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:21,220
telling me about that so I don't know a

751
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:23,290
lot of the details but he had told me

752
00:38:33,420 --> 00:38:27,510
that he was he had been trained to fly

753
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:33,430
helicopters mm-hmm at one point I don't

754
00:38:38,190 --> 00:38:36,610
I I could not pin down the details as to

755
00:38:43,530 --> 00:38:38,200
when he would have had this training

756
00:38:47,250 --> 00:38:43,540
it's not in his dd-214 at all which you

757
00:38:50,380 --> 00:38:47,260
know raises suspicions about it you know

758
00:38:54,579 --> 00:38:50,390
on just kind of a basic objective level

759
00:38:58,319 --> 00:38:54,589
to be questioned but he certainly was in

760
00:39:01,420 --> 00:38:58,329
the right places at the right time and

761
00:39:04,059 --> 00:39:01,430
you know looking at the records that I

762
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:04,069
did get it's unfortunate I got an

763
00:39:11,650 --> 00:39:09,200
envelope with as much records as the

764
00:39:14,289 --> 00:39:11,660
government you know was willing to part

765
00:39:16,990 --> 00:39:14,299
with on my dad's military service after

766
00:39:19,750 --> 00:39:17,000
the book was published naturally you

767
00:39:22,269 --> 00:39:19,760
know of course yeah naturally after the

768
00:39:24,009 --> 00:39:22,279
books out and I did find some

769
00:39:26,970 --> 00:39:24,019
interesting things in there that I went

770
00:39:30,579 --> 00:39:26,980
back in and I think added to the book

771
00:39:32,650 --> 00:39:30,589
but which is great you know the digital

772
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:32,660
era it allows you to do that you know

773
00:39:39,579 --> 00:39:36,890
whom once you leased a book but he

774
00:39:43,650 --> 00:39:39,589
certainly was in the right places at the

775
00:39:47,230 --> 00:39:43,660
right time and he certainly it appears I

776
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:47,240
had windows of time where he could have

777
00:39:56,249 --> 00:39:50,510
spent the weeks you know months required

778
00:39:58,210 --> 00:39:56,259
to learn how to fly you know these craft

779
00:40:01,359 --> 00:39:58,220
helicopters were talking about smaller I

780
00:40:03,490 --> 00:40:01,369
know yeah you know he could have and you

781
00:40:07,390 --> 00:40:03,500
know if we're classified it would not be

782
00:40:09,069 --> 00:40:07,400
on the dd-214 you know I like to remind

783
00:40:12,279 --> 00:40:09,079
people you know some people think it's

784
00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:12,289
it's this the final word document on on

785
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:14,089
every little thing somebody did in the

786
00:40:22,329 --> 00:40:18,650
military actually it's not you know my

787
00:40:24,700 --> 00:40:22,339
82 14 shows that I was an OSI agent it

788
00:40:26,650 --> 00:40:24,710
shows the basic courses and training

789
00:40:28,870 --> 00:40:26,660
ahead it says nothing about these

790
00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:28,880
specific operations or cases I work that

791
00:40:36,279 --> 00:40:34,220
stuff's classified you know so you even

792
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:36,289
though it is dream Lee valuable document

793
00:40:41,589 --> 00:40:39,410
anytime somebody makes claims about you

794
00:40:44,230 --> 00:40:41,599
know military career or things they did

795
00:40:45,970 --> 00:40:44,240
in the military yes I'm totally all for

796
00:40:48,970 --> 00:40:45,980
the first thing you need to do is ask to

797
00:40:52,660 --> 00:40:48,980
see their dd-214 they should readily

798
00:40:54,940 --> 00:40:52,670
provide a copy effect if they don't get

799
00:40:57,789 --> 00:40:54,950
they hem and haw that's you need to

800
00:41:01,839 --> 00:40:57,799
question in big-time but again that said

801
00:41:03,289 --> 00:41:01,849
not every little thing maybe on that DD

802
00:41:07,069 --> 00:41:03,299
214 and if

803
00:41:08,539 --> 00:41:07,079
things really deeply classified it it

804
00:41:10,579 --> 00:41:08,549
well classified any degree but

805
00:41:13,069 --> 00:41:10,589
especially if it's deeply classified it

806
00:41:17,419 --> 00:41:13,079
may not be on the dd-214

807
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:17,429
so you know you whether the reason I

808
00:41:23,089 --> 00:41:20,729
brought that up is that there's you know

809
00:41:26,539 --> 00:41:23,099
a very interesting section in your book

810
00:41:29,870 --> 00:41:26,549
that talks about how and and you know

811
00:41:32,029 --> 00:41:29,880
your your dad's story was that him and

812
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:32,039
others I mean their their mission was

813
00:41:43,659 --> 00:41:37,729
basically to find and rescue somebody

814
00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:43,669
from this subterranean world who had I

815
00:41:48,829 --> 00:41:46,529
guess that they had crashed on the

816
00:41:50,749 --> 00:41:48,839
surface and were now lost and it was

817
00:41:53,599 --> 00:41:50,759
their job to find him and take him back

818
00:41:55,939 --> 00:41:53,609
and possibly you know like one of the

819
00:42:00,889 --> 00:41:55,949
one of the things that they could do was

820
00:42:02,839 --> 00:42:00,899
I mean these subterranean areas were

821
00:42:05,870 --> 00:42:02,849
these caverns were large enough that you

822
00:42:10,909 --> 00:42:05,880
could actually fly a small aircraft in

823
00:42:13,399 --> 00:42:10,919
them yes yes he remembered you know this

824
00:42:16,339 --> 00:42:13,409
was a this would have a huge effort um

825
00:42:17,749 --> 00:42:16,349
yes very classified but it would have

826
00:42:19,789 --> 00:42:17,759
been you know involved a lot of

827
00:42:21,709 --> 00:42:19,799
personnel so he and the guys he worked

828
00:42:23,479 --> 00:42:21,719
with were just part of that effort you

829
00:42:27,289 --> 00:42:23,489
know doing their whatever their specific

830
00:42:31,099 --> 00:42:27,299
part was but absolutely you know he

831
00:42:34,039 --> 00:42:31,109
swore that you know short of the classic

832
00:42:37,279 --> 00:42:34,049
version of the Hollow Earth short of

833
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:37,289
that you know he swore for for decades

834
00:42:43,479 --> 00:42:39,839
that the underground was much bigger

835
00:42:46,759 --> 00:42:43,489
than you know people on the surface

836
00:42:49,309 --> 00:42:46,769
assumed it to be and yes you know

837
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:49,319
apparently large enough to fly small

838
00:42:55,969 --> 00:42:54,049
aircraft through so this was his story I

839
00:42:58,159 --> 00:42:55,979
personally have not witnessed these

840
00:43:01,639 --> 00:42:58,169
things but this this is his story and

841
00:43:05,419 --> 00:43:01,649
you know I am I'll experience and

842
00:43:08,149 --> 00:43:05,429
trained in you know what we call

843
00:43:10,879 --> 00:43:08,159
interview techniques or you know stubble

844
00:43:13,699 --> 00:43:10,889
interrogation techniques and I can tell

845
00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:13,709
you that using everything I know all my

846
00:43:20,359 --> 00:43:16,710
skills and it's what experience I have

847
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:20,369
is that he 100% believed what he was

848
00:43:27,710 --> 00:43:24,330
telling me all these years so well and I

849
00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:27,720
mean this this is a story though that I

850
00:43:32,839 --> 00:43:29,609
mean for anybody who has been interested

851
00:43:33,980 --> 00:43:32,849
in the whole you know a UFO mythos I

852
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:33,990
mean this has been around for quite a

853
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:35,910
long time I mean you know great Ray

854
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:37,890
Palmer was a very big advocate of the

855
00:43:41,810 --> 00:43:40,290
whole idea that you know UFOs you know

856
00:43:43,490 --> 00:43:41,820
they weren't originating from outer

857
00:43:45,470 --> 00:43:43,500
space but they were coming from you know

858
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:45,480
either Hollow Earth or from you don't

859
00:43:51,020 --> 00:43:48,530
like subterranean you know cavernous

860
00:43:52,790 --> 00:43:51,030
civilizations and basically I mean

861
00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:52,800
that's that's what your your dad was

862
00:44:00,320 --> 00:43:57,930
saying is that there is a another group

863
00:44:02,510 --> 00:44:00,330
of humans and I know he said that you

864
00:44:03,859 --> 00:44:02,520
know that these people were they they

865
00:44:05,420 --> 00:44:03,869
were humans I mean they weren't like you

866
00:44:07,250 --> 00:44:05,430
know the add the Falls or anything like

867
00:44:10,670 --> 00:44:07,260
that it is branched off a long time ago

868
00:44:12,859 --> 00:44:10,680
but that they had it sometime in the

869
00:44:15,140 --> 00:44:12,869
past I mean we're talking about you know

870
00:44:15,710 --> 00:44:15,150
maybe you know pre anti delusion or what

871
00:44:20,839 --> 00:44:15,720
have you

872
00:44:23,570 --> 00:44:20,849
had gone underground and had no interest

873
00:44:25,339 --> 00:44:23,580
in interacting with us crazy service

874
00:44:29,390 --> 00:44:25,349
people and it basically had developed

875
00:44:33,609 --> 00:44:29,400
you know their own civilization possibly

876
00:44:36,859 --> 00:44:33,619
you know a slightly more advanced

877
00:44:40,940 --> 00:44:36,869
technologically than us but who knows

878
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:40,950
you know iOS or developed in a different

879
00:44:48,980 --> 00:44:43,680
direction right right right

880
00:44:52,609 --> 00:44:48,990
you know I know that oh gosh

881
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:52,619
and now by his his name his has has

882
00:44:59,150 --> 00:44:56,210
slipped me every he he wrote the book

883
00:45:00,980 --> 00:44:59,160
about the ultra terrestrials and passed

884
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:00,990
away before it actually got released Wow

885
00:45:08,650 --> 00:45:04,050
Matt Tony's yeah back Tony's I mean you

886
00:45:12,620 --> 00:45:08,660
know part of his scenario was that these

887
00:45:15,349 --> 00:45:12,630
these people may not be that far more

888
00:45:19,220 --> 00:45:15,359
advanced than us they just have a better

889
00:45:21,260 --> 00:45:19,230
way of convincing us that they are that

890
00:45:23,930 --> 00:45:21,270
a part of their thing you know - I would

891
00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:23,940
say probably you know to help protect

892
00:45:29,940 --> 00:45:27,359
their thing and and it may be that just

893
00:45:34,180 --> 00:45:29,950
because they developed in

894
00:45:38,050 --> 00:45:34,190
a manner perpendicular to the line you

895
00:45:40,390 --> 00:45:38,060
know we developed they may not be as

896
00:45:43,630 --> 00:45:40,400
they may not be any more developed in

897
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:43,640
their line than we are in ours right

898
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:49,910
it's different yeah well and did you

899
00:45:56,650 --> 00:45:54,290
your dad's missions I mean day it took

900
00:46:01,620 --> 00:45:56,660
place out in the southwest but Evie did

901
00:46:04,599 --> 00:46:01,630
he give any indication that this was a

902
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:04,609
group of people that I mean were all

903
00:46:09,430 --> 00:46:06,530
over the world I think that lived in you

904
00:46:13,630 --> 00:46:09,440
know subterranean realms all over the

905
00:46:17,470 --> 00:46:13,640
world or just in this one location he

906
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:17,480
didn't he didn't get into beyond what

907
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:21,170
his experience was but naturally and

908
00:46:24,910 --> 00:46:23,090
your you know you and your listeners are

909
00:46:25,870 --> 00:46:24,920
you know very familiar with what you

910
00:46:27,599 --> 00:46:25,880
were just saying how this has been

911
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:27,609
around a long time and there's lore of

912
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:30,290
these civilizations all over the world

913
00:46:36,700 --> 00:46:33,050
and you know my knowledge of the stuff

914
00:46:39,730 --> 00:46:36,710
of course um yeah I yeah to answer your

915
00:46:42,510 --> 00:46:39,740
question I assume that you know they

916
00:46:46,390 --> 00:46:42,520
would be but he did not get into that I

917
00:46:49,270 --> 00:46:46,400
was around beyond his experience all

918
00:46:52,329 --> 00:46:49,280
right Walter well we are coming up to

919
00:46:55,270 --> 00:46:52,339
our top of the hour break and so we will

920
00:46:57,190 --> 00:46:55,280
continue this conversation in just a few

921
00:46:59,589 --> 00:46:57,200
minutes so for everybody out there

922
00:47:02,109 --> 00:46:59,599
listening this is exploring bizarre and

923
00:47:04,990 --> 00:47:02,119
my guest tonight is well proposed Li and

924
00:47:08,140 --> 00:47:05,000
Tim Beckley is still partying in the

925
00:47:15,690 --> 00:47:08,150
room next door so stay tuned we will be

926
00:47:15,700 --> 00:47:20,499
[Music]

927
00:47:28,939 --> 00:47:25,549
explode dissolve or e-ticket ride into

928
00:47:31,359 --> 00:47:28,949
the world of the paranoid strap yourself

929
00:47:35,799 --> 00:47:31,369
Ian as we traverse the universe

930
00:47:38,140 --> 00:47:35,809
exploring the unexplained UFO s ghost

931
00:47:40,549 --> 00:47:38,150
lost world

932
00:47:44,390 --> 00:47:40,559
cryptozoology as well as other

933
00:47:48,799 --> 00:47:44,400
dimensions it's time to take back the

934
00:47:52,039 --> 00:47:48,809
night after night now your electrifying

935
00:47:57,229 --> 00:47:52,049
hosts of exploring the bizarre Timothy

936
00:48:03,209 --> 00:48:00,120
and welcome back to exploring the bazaar

937
00:48:06,059 --> 00:48:03,219
I'm Tim Schwarz and my guest tonight is

938
00:48:08,339 --> 00:48:06,069
Walter Bosley we are anxiously awaiting

939
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:08,349
into the show so we can join Tim Beckley

940
00:48:12,930 --> 00:48:09,599
in his party next door

941
00:48:17,190 --> 00:48:12,940
and I hate I think there's no more

942
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:17,200
birthday cake Walter oh I don't know if

943
00:48:24,599 --> 00:48:22,170
there's beer right I hope so I hope so

944
00:48:27,660 --> 00:48:24,609
you just you just never can tell with

945
00:48:28,979 --> 00:48:27,670
one two Beckley's parties yeah so we'll

946
00:48:32,269 --> 00:48:28,989
just we'll just keep our fingers crossed

947
00:48:36,449 --> 00:48:32,279
and continue on with our show and

948
00:48:38,759 --> 00:48:36,459
tonight we're discussing your most

949
00:48:44,809 --> 00:48:38,769
recent book shimmering light lost in an

950
00:48:47,670 --> 00:48:44,819
MK ULTRA house of anew and you know the

951
00:48:50,729 --> 00:48:47,680
again I mean for those of you out there

952
00:48:57,569 --> 00:48:50,739
who are not familiar with a Walters

953
00:48:59,759 --> 00:48:57,579
story that his dad told him allegedly

954
00:49:03,259 --> 00:48:59,769
and and I'm sorry Walter I'll have to uh

955
00:49:09,959 --> 00:49:03,269
you know have to put that in there oh

956
00:49:11,789 --> 00:49:09,969
yeah I say well myself you know the the

957
00:49:14,189 --> 00:49:11,799
whatever it was that crashed at Roswell

958
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:14,199
was not an extraterrestrial craft it

959
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:16,650
wasn't a project mogul balloon you know

960
00:49:25,789 --> 00:49:22,410
instead it was a aircraft from a

961
00:49:29,069 --> 00:49:25,799
subterranean civilization that I guess

962
00:49:32,430 --> 00:49:29,079
existed fairly close by out there in the

963
00:49:36,529 --> 00:49:32,440
southwest at and and apparently you know

964
00:49:40,650 --> 00:49:36,539
whatever these you know underground

965
00:49:43,130 --> 00:49:40,660
humans are were able to fly around that

966
00:49:45,989 --> 00:49:43,140
they come out periodically they're not

967
00:49:49,620 --> 00:49:45,999
just confined completely underground

968
00:49:54,959 --> 00:49:49,630
and that apparently after the Roswell

969
00:49:57,859 --> 00:49:54,969
crash correct me if I'm wrong here there

970
00:50:01,859 --> 00:49:57,869
was some kind of then communication

971
00:50:06,689 --> 00:50:01,869
between them and our military or our

972
00:50:10,870 --> 00:50:06,699
government to you know return you know

973
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:10,880
their their lost comrades or whatever Oh

974
00:50:18,970 --> 00:50:14,050
Oh is what my dad told me on that issue

975
00:50:20,620 --> 00:50:18,980
was that they had requested help period

976
00:50:23,890 --> 00:50:20,630
that's all he didn't describe the

977
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:23,900
specific type of communication or or how

978
00:50:31,660 --> 00:50:27,050
they approached that oh all he told me

979
00:50:37,890 --> 00:50:31,670
was they requested our meaning you know

980
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:42,700
that's that's all he provided so the the

981
00:50:48,460 --> 00:50:45,890
details on how you know the the ice was

982
00:50:50,890 --> 00:50:48,470
broken on that conversation or who might

983
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:50,900
have approached him he just didn't

984
00:50:55,540 --> 00:50:54,530
provide those right and maybe he didn't

985
00:50:59,440 --> 00:50:55,550
know I mean he probably didn't know

986
00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:59,450
himself bad and see that's the other

987
00:51:02,860 --> 00:51:01,280
thing he might not have you know that

988
00:51:05,470 --> 00:51:02,870
might have not been in his job

989
00:51:07,540 --> 00:51:05,480
description to know that yeah not uh

990
00:51:09,970 --> 00:51:07,550
need to know he got others you know I

991
00:51:10,810 --> 00:51:09,980
want to add to we were talking about the

992
00:51:13,060 --> 00:51:10,820
dd-214

993
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:13,070
earlier I discovered in my dad's

994
00:51:19,780 --> 00:51:16,010
personal papers this was not something I

995
00:51:21,190 --> 00:51:19,790
got from you know that file requests

996
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:21,200
that I mentioned earlier this was

997
00:51:26,500 --> 00:51:24,410
something that was with his DD 214 it

998
00:51:29,740 --> 00:51:26,510
was a George Air Force Base form one

999
00:51:32,110 --> 00:51:29,750
zero one in which his duties specific

1000
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:32,120
job duties are described and on that

1001
00:51:38,260 --> 00:51:36,290
form is typed casualty collection team

1002
00:51:40,030 --> 00:51:38,270
number one now over the years my dad

1003
00:51:42,820 --> 00:51:40,040
told me that again being part of

1004
00:51:46,990 --> 00:51:42,830
aviation medicine and such he had been

1005
00:51:49,390 --> 00:51:47,000
part of retrieval ops when when aircraft

1006
00:51:51,070 --> 00:51:49,400
would crash would rot down unfortunately

1007
00:51:52,660 --> 00:51:51,080
the pilots would lose their lives and

1008
00:51:55,300 --> 00:51:52,670
you know you can imagine how gruesome

1009
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:55,310
some of these stories were so you know

1010
00:52:00,010 --> 00:51:57,170
not only was the in aviation medicine

1011
00:52:01,450 --> 00:52:00,020
and working in the early days of the

1012
00:52:03,340 --> 00:52:01,460
mercury program and such and would have

1013
00:52:06,610 --> 00:52:03,350
been cleared for all things to do with

1014
00:52:08,740 --> 00:52:06,620
space in that regard he was on a

1015
00:52:11,830 --> 00:52:08,750
casualty collection team that that is on

1016
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:11,840
an official Air Force document so this

1017
00:52:17,380 --> 00:52:15,200
was a retrieval operation and if you're

1018
00:52:19,720 --> 00:52:17,390
on a collection team for such things

1019
00:52:21,430 --> 00:52:19,730
there you go that's even more reason for

1020
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:21,440
my dad to have been involved with this

1021
00:52:26,740 --> 00:52:24,410
but yeah going back to the communication

1022
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:26,750
you know that's not the point you know

1023
00:52:34,210 --> 00:52:30,170
if someone were to you know make a big

1024
00:52:36,730 --> 00:52:34,220
deal out of that how they went to the

1025
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:36,740
military the government or whoever but

1026
00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:38,720
yes that's the case that apparently this

1027
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:40,310
time when it happened they they

1028
00:52:45,460 --> 00:52:43,010
requested help because the pilots

1029
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:45,470
according to my dad was still alive how

1030
00:52:51,430 --> 00:52:47,690
they knew that exactly I he didn't say

1031
00:52:54,670 --> 00:52:51,440
but they believe their pilot was alive

1032
00:52:56,740 --> 00:52:54,680
and up on the surface lost and that's

1033
00:53:01,120 --> 00:52:56,750
according to my dad was started at all

1034
00:53:03,610 --> 00:53:01,130
mm-hmm now uh norms are glad Walter I

1035
00:53:06,670 --> 00:53:03,620
said in the 1958 incident that's what's

1036
00:53:08,410 --> 00:53:06,680
loaded it okay now one of the things

1037
00:53:11,500 --> 00:53:08,420
that your dad said it was interesting is

1038
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:11,510
that at least at least some of these

1039
00:53:22,600 --> 00:53:14,330
people they've been underground so long

1040
00:53:25,690 --> 00:53:22,610
that they're blind and I would I mean

1041
00:53:28,840 --> 00:53:25,700
did he say that everyone was or just a

1042
00:53:32,220 --> 00:53:28,850
certain you know part of the population

1043
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:32,230
I'm glad you brought that up because

1044
00:53:38,890 --> 00:53:34,850
within the analysis of what my dad told

1045
00:53:41,590 --> 00:53:38,900
me okay what we've got of the people

1046
00:53:44,710 --> 00:53:41,600
that he encountered and he describes

1047
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:44,720
them as blind but their other senses

1048
00:53:49,390 --> 00:53:47,210
were highly developed like a bat you

1049
00:53:51,310 --> 00:53:49,400
know older that used their sonar to know

1050
00:53:52,810 --> 00:53:51,320
their way around in the underworld and

1051
00:53:55,900 --> 00:53:52,820
you know essentially that's where we get

1052
00:53:59,040 --> 00:53:55,910
the term blind as a bat from but what's

1053
00:54:04,780 --> 00:53:59,050
interesting is the people he described

1054
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:04,790
encountering the description was very

1055
00:54:11,020 --> 00:54:08,690
much very similar to the moon eyed

1056
00:54:13,630 --> 00:54:11,030
people that the cherokee would talk

1057
00:54:15,700 --> 00:54:13,640
about my belief I talked about in the

1058
00:54:19,270 --> 00:54:15,710
book Thomas Jefferson I think in one of

1059
00:54:22,660 --> 00:54:19,280
his Diaries or writings refers to a

1060
00:54:29,310 --> 00:54:22,670
report dating back to you know the 18th

1061
00:54:32,140 --> 00:54:29,320
century about an explorer or trapper who

1062
00:54:33,910 --> 00:54:32,150
learned about these moon-eyed people

1063
00:54:35,650 --> 00:54:33,920
from the cherokee and they were called

1064
00:54:37,920 --> 00:54:35,660
moon-eyed because their eyes were all

1065
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:37,930
for whatever reason you know

1066
00:54:45,610 --> 00:54:42,290
milked over and they were blind had

1067
00:54:49,180 --> 00:54:45,620
other senses and they you know lived

1068
00:54:52,540 --> 00:54:49,190
underground well you know that's back in

1069
00:54:54,220 --> 00:54:52,550
the southeast but that goes to your

1070
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:54,230
question earlier about you know are they

1071
00:54:58,930 --> 00:54:56,450
all over the place well you know we

1072
00:55:02,250 --> 00:54:58,940
could say due to the cavern system yes

1073
00:55:05,020 --> 00:55:02,260
you know and what my dad described

1074
00:55:09,240 --> 00:55:05,030
regarding those people to me he sounded

1075
00:55:12,070 --> 00:55:09,250
a lot like these moon eyed people but

1076
00:55:15,070 --> 00:55:12,080
there's a reason when you get into the

1077
00:55:18,460 --> 00:55:15,080
details of his story there there's a

1078
00:55:23,260 --> 00:55:18,470
reason to suspect that we might be

1079
00:55:23,950 --> 00:55:23,270
talking about two different groups of

1080
00:55:26,110 --> 00:55:23,960
people

1081
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:26,120
that the ones he encountered may have

1082
00:55:34,630 --> 00:55:31,520
been the descendants of the humans who

1083
00:55:36,850 --> 00:55:34,640
when there was a planetary Cataclysm had

1084
00:55:39,660 --> 00:55:36,860
to go underground and had been there for

1085
00:55:42,220 --> 00:55:39,670
a long time and then there was the

1086
00:55:45,690 --> 00:55:42,230
civilization that possessed technology

1087
00:55:48,550 --> 00:55:45,700
that we're speaking of there is a

1088
00:55:51,250 --> 00:55:48,560
possible suggestion of the fact in all

1089
00:55:54,010 --> 00:55:51,260
the details of what he told me and that

1090
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:54,020
is what leads to in the book the

1091
00:55:59,770 --> 00:55:56,890
discussion of the two way did an end

1092
00:56:02,830 --> 00:55:59,780
okay now who's the toid how are you

1093
00:56:04,240 --> 00:56:02,840
trying to say that Cocteau Tina Tina our

1094
00:56:06,010 --> 00:56:04,250
producers laughing at me because I

1095
00:56:07,810 --> 00:56:06,020
because she knows how how good I am at

1096
00:56:10,990 --> 00:56:07,820
pronouncing last names and words

1097
00:56:15,310 --> 00:56:11,000
sometimes you read the book it's spelled

1098
00:56:17,230 --> 00:56:15,320
tu a th a okay and it's pronounced my

1099
00:56:20,980 --> 00:56:17,240
understanding is I used to call them the

1100
00:56:23,890 --> 00:56:20,990
Tawaf itself and then I learned that the

1101
00:56:28,090 --> 00:56:23,900
one pronunciation is betwe but waited

1102
00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:28,100
and and they are interestingly a race of

1103
00:56:33,730 --> 00:56:31,730
people who came you know some people

1104
00:56:36,160 --> 00:56:33,740
will assume from another planet but

1105
00:56:40,900 --> 00:56:36,170
really the description is they came out

1106
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:40,910
of clouds in the sky and there's just as

1107
00:56:47,050 --> 00:56:43,850
much reason to say that they might have

1108
00:56:49,450 --> 00:56:47,060
come from another dimension or traveled

1109
00:56:51,069 --> 00:56:49,460
inter-dimensionally from another world

1110
00:56:53,140 --> 00:56:51,079
to ours

1111
00:56:56,259 --> 00:56:53,150
back in ancient times and they're

1112
00:56:59,279 --> 00:56:56,269
discussed in the most detail i believe

1113
00:57:02,920 --> 00:56:59,289
in irish old Celtic Irish Scots Irish

1114
00:57:04,420 --> 00:57:02,930
mythology and what's interesting is when

1115
00:57:08,049 --> 00:57:04,430
you look at the historical timeline at

1116
00:57:09,339 --> 00:57:08,059
the time they disappeared from you know

1117
00:57:13,390 --> 00:57:09,349
the British Isles

1118
00:57:16,839 --> 00:57:13,400
there was a very similar civilization

1119
00:57:19,779 --> 00:57:16,849
that showed up and started developing

1120
00:57:24,430 --> 00:57:19,789
things in other parts of the world

1121
00:57:26,410 --> 00:57:24,440
mm-hmm the Americas included and there's

1122
00:57:28,749 --> 00:57:26,420
there's even an author I'd mentioned in

1123
00:57:31,059 --> 00:57:28,759
the book the name escapes me off the top

1124
00:57:35,739 --> 00:57:31,069
of my head who has a theory that it was

1125
00:57:38,469 --> 00:57:35,749
the to way to the name that were the

1126
00:57:41,799 --> 00:57:38,479
megalith builders in the Americas and

1127
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:41,809
and about the time they disappeared from

1128
00:57:48,069 --> 00:57:45,170
the Americas in some cultures we jump

1129
00:57:51,190 --> 00:57:48,079
over to the Celtic lore and on that

1130
00:57:53,920 --> 00:57:51,200
timeline about the time that these these

1131
00:57:57,069 --> 00:57:53,930
guys disappeared from the Americas is

1132
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:57,079
when the two way apparently returned to

1133
00:58:01,779 --> 00:57:58,880
the British Isles so when you do that

1134
00:58:05,079 --> 00:58:01,789
analysis you've got this race of beings

1135
00:58:08,589 --> 00:58:05,089
with this you know I want to say I'm

1136
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:08,599
using the term perpendicular you know

1137
00:58:14,529 --> 00:58:11,690
technology whoa who exactly are these

1138
00:58:15,069 --> 00:58:14,539
characters you know where did they come

1139
00:58:19,479 --> 00:58:15,079
from

1140
00:58:22,479 --> 00:58:19,489
what exactly are they and I think they

1141
00:58:28,420 --> 00:58:22,489
are most definitely in the mix of all of

1142
00:58:31,479 --> 00:58:28,430
this well and correct me if I'm wrong I

1143
00:58:33,999 --> 00:58:31,489
mean the the description is is that they

1144
00:58:36,999 --> 00:58:34,009
they look relatively human but they're a

1145
00:58:39,939 --> 00:58:37,009
little bit smaller than us which

1146
00:58:42,370 --> 00:58:39,949
describe when I'm home now that that two

1147
00:58:44,109 --> 00:58:42,380
days to a damag that's it all right

1148
00:58:46,809 --> 00:58:44,119
they're close enough well that the

1149
00:58:49,509 --> 00:58:46,819
description of what my dad saw was they

1150
00:58:52,349 --> 00:58:49,519
were they were human virtually hairless

1151
00:58:55,150 --> 00:58:52,359
and a little smaller in stature yeah

1152
00:58:58,449 --> 00:58:55,160
there but but a lot of these you know

1153
00:59:00,579 --> 00:58:58,459
like other mythologies of the others

1154
00:59:04,150 --> 00:59:00,589
throughout the world

1155
00:59:06,130 --> 00:59:04,160
the people tend you know they're the

1156
00:59:09,069 --> 00:59:06,140
descriptions they tend to be you know

1157
00:59:11,349 --> 00:59:09,079
like smaller than us which kind of all's

1158
00:59:13,989 --> 00:59:11,359
yes yeah which also kind of falls into a

1159
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:13,999
lot of the you know you know UFO

1160
00:59:20,799 --> 00:59:18,170
occupants sightings of dwarf like beans

1161
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:20,809
sure yeah well you you you do have the

1162
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:22,400
dwarf like beings of course but in the

1163
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:24,799
case of the two way you got to remember

1164
00:59:30,249 --> 00:59:27,410
to there was something that went on to

1165
00:59:34,660 --> 00:59:30,259
relate that as one culture or

1166
00:59:36,819 --> 00:59:34,670
civilization pushed out another then the

1167
00:59:39,130 --> 00:59:36,829
culture that got pushed out became

1168
00:59:41,049 --> 00:59:39,140
demeaned they were poor they were

1169
00:59:43,719 --> 00:59:41,059
described as more diminutive than they

1170
00:59:47,170 --> 00:59:43,729
actually were their technology and their

1171
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:47,180
knowledge was was lessened and made out

1172
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,130
to be less than it was because the new

1173
00:59:53,859 --> 00:59:51,680
guys were here now and and they're more

1174
00:59:56,499 --> 00:59:53,869
powerful they're bigger actually the

1175
00:59:58,779 --> 00:59:56,509
farther you go back when you look at the

1176
01:00:02,439 --> 00:59:58,789
two-way they they really weren't

1177
01:00:05,319 --> 01:00:02,449
particularly described as smaller you

1178
01:00:06,849 --> 01:00:05,329
know in from my perspective you you have

1179
01:00:10,380 --> 01:00:06,859
to go back to the earliest descriptions

1180
01:00:12,849 --> 01:00:10,390
I think you know in some times to get

1181
01:00:15,579 --> 01:00:12,859
some of the more accurate information

1182
01:00:18,519 --> 01:00:15,589
now sometimes you know the farther you

1183
01:00:20,679 --> 01:00:18,529
go back the less advanced the witnesses

1184
01:00:22,929 --> 01:00:20,689
are so they might you could argue that

1185
01:00:26,589 --> 01:00:22,939
they might be exaggerating what they're

1186
01:00:27,939 --> 01:00:26,599
seeing but it's these these to wait at

1187
01:00:31,949 --> 01:00:27,949
an end

1188
01:00:35,229 --> 01:00:31,959
it's it's a very fascinating subject and

1189
01:00:38,469 --> 01:00:35,239
the fact that some of the things my dad

1190
01:00:40,749 --> 01:00:38,479
described in and some of the stuff that

1191
01:00:44,890 --> 01:00:40,759
you know he said went on with all this

1192
01:00:49,289 --> 01:00:44,900
the fact that it reflects these these

1193
01:00:52,179 --> 01:00:49,299
mysterious people is really intriguing

1194
01:00:55,239 --> 01:00:52,189
you know yet you have to wonder and that

1195
01:00:57,429 --> 01:00:55,249
it goes back to you know were that were

1196
01:00:59,949 --> 01:00:57,439
the people my dad and the guy he was

1197
01:01:02,109 --> 01:00:59,959
with the the people that they

1198
01:01:03,910 --> 01:01:02,119
encountered in pay underground you know

1199
01:01:07,499 --> 01:01:03,920
were they the moon-eyed people of the

1200
01:01:09,759 --> 01:01:07,509
cherokee and and were they just you know

1201
01:01:11,589 --> 01:01:09,769
another group of humans that had gone

1202
01:01:12,130 --> 01:01:11,599
underground but they weren't the ones in

1203
01:01:13,809 --> 01:01:12,140
possessing

1204
01:01:14,260 --> 01:01:13,819
possession of the technologies I said a

1205
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:14,270
few moment

1206
01:01:30,490 --> 01:01:22,490
before in it begins to it begins to have

1207
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:30,500
a texture that is less simple but the

1208
01:01:37,930 --> 01:01:35,090
the group that that your father and and

1209
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:37,940
his group encountered in the cavern so I

1210
01:01:42,910 --> 01:01:41,210
mean one of them had the four wonderful

1211
01:01:46,420 --> 01:01:42,920
better description the prover real magic

1212
01:01:49,810 --> 01:01:46,430
wand that was able to just basically

1213
01:01:54,820 --> 01:01:49,820
shut one of these guys off yeah hallo -

1214
01:01:56,860 --> 01:01:54,830
hallo - and it was just aimed at the guy

1215
01:01:58,900 --> 01:01:56,870
and as my dad described he was dead

1216
01:02:01,150 --> 01:01:58,910
before he hit the ground now in my book

1217
01:02:05,650 --> 01:02:01,160
what's interesting about that is the

1218
01:02:11,610 --> 01:02:05,660
chakra la in his work from about 25-30

1219
01:02:15,640 --> 01:02:11,620
years ago he writes about us a UFO

1220
01:02:18,790 --> 01:02:15,650
sighting and encounter eighteen counter

1221
01:02:21,610 --> 01:02:18,800
ostensibly et encounter an encounter

1222
01:02:25,150 --> 01:02:21,620
with a UFO occupant in which the UFO

1223
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:25,160
occupants are humanoid also had a hollow

1224
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:28,250
- and you know pointed at someone in

1225
01:02:33,370 --> 01:02:30,650
there stung you know like a with a

1226
01:02:36,970 --> 01:02:33,380
thousand needles and that was just in

1227
01:02:39,850 --> 01:02:36,980
the early to mid 60's you know less than

1228
01:02:42,940 --> 01:02:39,860
ten years after my dad you know as

1229
01:02:46,210 --> 01:02:42,950
according to him had encountered you

1230
01:02:47,890 --> 01:02:46,220
know a very similar or same being or at

1231
01:02:51,940 --> 01:02:47,900
least that same technology underground

1232
01:02:54,670 --> 01:02:51,950
in 1958 in Arizona and this UFO story

1233
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:54,680
which valet writes about I believe

1234
01:03:03,990 --> 01:02:57,650
happened in Nebraska which you know you

1235
01:03:07,090 --> 01:03:04,000
have the Midwest there would it's in the

1236
01:03:12,240 --> 01:03:07,100
subterranean realm you know as its

1237
01:03:18,160 --> 01:03:16,180
so oh wow I mean if you've got the

1238
01:03:19,270 --> 01:03:18,170
Cherokees talking about moon people that

1239
01:03:21,220 --> 01:03:19,280
lived under the ground you know back

1240
01:03:23,470 --> 01:03:21,230
there in Tennessee well there you go

1241
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:23,480
they're all over the continent under the

1242
01:03:28,049 --> 01:03:25,730
surface oh yeah well I mean you know I

1243
01:03:31,019 --> 01:03:28,059
live I live here in southern India

1244
01:03:33,719 --> 01:03:31,029
Anna and I mean you know the Native

1245
01:03:35,519 --> 01:03:33,729
Americans who lived here every day they

1246
01:03:38,939 --> 01:03:35,529
talked about the moon eyed people as

1247
01:03:41,579 --> 01:03:38,949
well yeah you know in fact I and I can't

1248
01:03:43,349 --> 01:03:41,589
remember I think it was the tribe now

1249
01:03:44,519 --> 01:03:43,359
known as the Delaware that's that's not

1250
01:03:46,949 --> 01:03:44,529
what they called themselves when they

1251
01:03:48,689 --> 01:03:46,959
came here but they said that you know

1252
01:03:51,959 --> 01:03:48,699
what they were crossing you know the

1253
01:03:54,329 --> 01:03:51,969
Mississippi from what would have been

1254
01:03:58,109 --> 01:03:54,339
probably like Missouri into Illinois and

1255
01:04:01,380 --> 01:03:58,119
I mean they ran smack into the moon eyed

1256
01:04:06,989 --> 01:04:01,390
people and and started you know driving

1257
01:04:12,299 --> 01:04:06,999
them out probably into Tennessee well

1258
01:04:17,789 --> 01:04:12,309
now you have the person that you call

1259
01:04:22,620 --> 01:04:17,799
your mentor and uh he he he also

1260
01:04:24,479 --> 01:04:22,630
discussed with you what had happened to

1261
01:04:28,759 --> 01:04:24,489
your father and I mean and he basically

1262
01:04:31,559 --> 01:04:28,769
I mean he did he confirm to you that

1263
01:04:37,890 --> 01:04:31,569
what your father was telling you was was

1264
01:04:41,370 --> 01:04:37,900
true in word yes he essentially told me

1265
01:04:45,209 --> 01:04:41,380
that my dad's version is what happened

1266
01:04:49,259 --> 01:04:45,219
and he encouraged me to draw more out of

1267
01:04:51,449 --> 01:04:49,269
my dad over the years and this is what

1268
01:04:54,029 --> 01:04:51,459
you know when people say well how come

1269
01:04:55,229 --> 01:04:54,039
you haven't just embraced the the you

1270
01:04:57,809 --> 01:04:55,239
know the idea that maybe it was just

1271
01:05:00,989 --> 01:04:57,819
early man space tempt or you know the

1272
01:05:04,650 --> 01:05:00,999
the more mundane down-to-earth version

1273
01:05:08,779 --> 01:05:04,660
well it's hard for me too because you

1274
01:05:12,059 --> 01:05:08,789
know my mentor was I have no idea what

1275
01:05:14,669 --> 01:05:12,069
the level of what his rank was when you

1276
01:05:16,349 --> 01:05:14,679
know he because he was in the army he

1277
01:05:18,630 --> 01:05:16,359
was involved army intelligence he passed

1278
01:05:23,069 --> 01:05:18,640
away a little over a year ago mm-hm so I

1279
01:05:25,829 --> 01:05:23,079
can talk a little more about him and you

1280
01:05:28,469 --> 01:05:25,839
know this was a guy who he never gave me

1281
01:05:31,589 --> 01:05:28,479
any reason to doubt anything he ever

1282
01:05:34,620 --> 01:05:31,599
told me you know many times there were

1283
01:05:36,719 --> 01:05:34,630
things he told me that you know I would

1284
01:05:38,780 --> 01:05:36,729
check on it and it was true or you know

1285
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:38,790
proved to be true and

1286
01:05:47,150 --> 01:05:43,680
so yeah you know I essentially you know

1287
01:05:49,310 --> 01:05:47,160
kind of in a way I took I took

1288
01:05:53,690 --> 01:05:49,320
instruction from him some people might

1289
01:05:58,090 --> 01:05:53,700
call marching orders and so and I don't

1290
01:06:05,060 --> 01:06:02,120
yeah so here you have you know him

1291
01:06:08,530 --> 01:06:05,070
telling me you know your dad's version

1292
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:08,540
is is what happened get more out of him

1293
01:06:14,690 --> 01:06:11,810
you know he's the one that first really

1294
01:06:20,150 --> 01:06:14,700
started telling me about Wilson into

1295
01:06:25,010 --> 01:06:20,160
Wilson was and you know so I'm coming

1296
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:25,020
from that perspective this is why I in

1297
01:06:29,359 --> 01:06:26,970
the book I don't I leave it to the

1298
01:06:31,700 --> 01:06:29,369
reader I usually do this in my books you

1299
01:06:34,340 --> 01:06:31,710
know I have no qualms about you know

1300
01:06:36,410 --> 01:06:34,350
usually saying my position on things but

1301
01:06:37,849 --> 01:06:36,420
I'd like to leave it to the to the

1302
01:06:40,700 --> 01:06:37,859
reader or the listener to decide for

1303
01:06:45,020 --> 01:06:40,710
themselves I'm not trying to force fully

1304
01:06:48,530 --> 01:06:45,030
convince anybody in many but see I think

1305
01:06:51,020 --> 01:06:48,540
that there's more to it than just a

1306
01:06:53,750 --> 01:06:51,030
story that was planted in my dad's head

1307
01:06:55,340 --> 01:06:53,760
as I go into in great detail in the book

1308
01:06:57,500 --> 01:06:55,350
because the technology to do that

1309
01:06:59,330 --> 01:06:57,510
certainly existed and was being

1310
01:07:02,510 --> 01:06:59,340
developed by the Air Force at that time

1311
01:07:05,359 --> 01:07:02,520
so it must be considered however between

1312
01:07:08,210 --> 01:07:05,369
what my mentor told me and other

1313
01:07:11,990 --> 01:07:08,220
personal experiences and investigations

1314
01:07:14,230 --> 01:07:12,000
I personally do not accept that as the

1315
01:07:18,260 --> 01:07:14,240
explanation for what happened there is

1316
01:07:23,120 --> 01:07:18,270
it's you know it could be as a good

1317
01:07:25,849 --> 01:07:23,130
friend of mine says it it's all of what

1318
01:07:28,310 --> 01:07:25,859
I suggested that what I wrote the book

1319
01:07:30,890 --> 01:07:28,320
that everything in there was a part of a

1320
01:07:33,410 --> 01:07:30,900
mix that their wall mind controls stuff

1321
01:07:35,930 --> 01:07:33,420
my mentor told me that they used the

1322
01:07:38,780 --> 01:07:35,940
monk control technology on my dad to

1323
01:07:40,790 --> 01:07:38,790
suppress his memories of what happened

1324
01:07:43,180 --> 01:07:40,800
down there okay no there's your bet

1325
01:07:46,340 --> 01:07:43,190
that's why I pursued the mind control a

1326
01:07:48,500 --> 01:07:46,350
thread in the book and you know of

1327
01:07:52,010 --> 01:07:48,510
course documented what I found in that

1328
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:52,020
stuff I didn't know that's why I

1329
01:08:00,740 --> 01:07:56,090
you know pursued all the other things

1330
01:08:04,010 --> 01:08:00,750
because they're all in the mix why that

1331
01:08:06,710 --> 01:08:04,020
and that was the reason that I brought

1332
01:08:08,980 --> 01:08:06,720
up your mentor is because I mean you you

1333
01:08:12,530 --> 01:08:08,990
had you have some just really

1334
01:08:14,750 --> 01:08:12,540
fascinating chapters about the whole you

1335
01:08:16,789 --> 01:08:14,760
know like mkl - you know project

1336
01:08:20,059 --> 01:08:16,799
Bluebird and things like that and the

1337
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:20,069
one thing that I did not know and I kind

1338
01:08:25,249 --> 01:08:22,170
of kicked myself now for not you know

1339
01:08:28,550 --> 01:08:25,259
not not realizing this beforehand was

1340
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:28,560
that the Air Force and probably the Army

1341
01:08:34,820 --> 01:08:31,890
and Navy as well had their own mind

1342
01:08:36,950 --> 01:08:34,830
control projects at the CIA they weren't

1343
01:08:39,650 --> 01:08:36,960
alone you know in doing this kind of

1344
01:08:43,099 --> 01:08:39,660
research development and everybody

1345
01:08:45,260 --> 01:08:43,109
points to the 1973 church committee when

1346
01:08:47,930 --> 01:08:45,270
the CIA had to come clean before

1347
01:08:49,579 --> 01:08:47,940
Congress and admit to all the stuff they

1348
01:08:52,960 --> 01:08:49,589
were doing what I didn't know when I

1349
01:08:56,090 --> 01:08:52,970
state this in the book it blew my mind

1350
01:08:57,950 --> 01:08:56,100
what the what these people don't know is

1351
01:09:02,690 --> 01:08:57,960
is that the Department of Defense was

1352
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:02,700
never compelled by Congress to reveal

1353
01:09:07,490 --> 01:09:04,650
what they had been doing with MKULTRA

1354
01:09:11,539 --> 01:09:07,500
technology never that everything that

1355
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:11,549
the most enthusiastic military customer

1356
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:12,690
of the MKULTRA

1357
01:09:20,240 --> 01:09:15,810
research by the CIA was the United

1358
01:09:23,090 --> 01:09:20,250
States Air Force okay and they broke off

1359
01:09:25,970 --> 01:09:23,100
and started doing their own MKULTRA

1360
01:09:29,480 --> 01:09:25,980
program which the CIA was not privy to

1361
01:09:31,550 --> 01:09:29,490
and this was never ordered to be

1362
01:09:32,900 --> 01:09:31,560
revealed by any congressional committee

1363
01:09:36,079 --> 01:09:32,910
certainly not the Church Committee in

1364
01:09:39,140 --> 01:09:36,089
1973 so to this day we don't know

1365
01:09:44,059 --> 01:09:39,150
exactly what the US Air Force or the

1366
01:09:47,059 --> 01:09:44,069
military has done with MKULTRA hmm why

1367
01:09:49,130 --> 01:09:47,069
I'm in a barrel we're not quite Demming

1368
01:09:51,559 --> 01:09:49,140
I'm not condemning I mean I am an Air

1369
01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:51,569
Force officer okay and I discuss in the

1370
01:09:56,960 --> 01:09:54,450
book that you know if applications may

1371
01:09:59,690 --> 01:09:56,970
not be as nefarious as some people will

1372
01:10:03,729 --> 01:09:59,700
need your and assume that it is I'm just

1373
01:10:06,310 --> 01:10:03,739
saying that's a fact no no

1374
01:10:09,130 --> 01:10:06,320
all right well we are at our bottom of

1375
01:10:11,070 --> 01:10:09,140
the our break here Walter so I want to

1376
01:10:15,550 --> 01:10:11,080
take up this thread of the conversation

1377
01:10:17,650 --> 01:10:15,560
when we come back so you're listening to

1378
01:10:20,979 --> 01:10:17,660
exploring the bizarre we're talking with

1379
01:10:23,050 --> 01:10:20,989
Walter Bosley and I'm Tim Swartz

1380
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:23,060
anxiously awaiting to go to Tim Beckwith

1381
01:10:38,370 --> 01:10:25,850
birthday party next door serves 18 for

1382
01:10:41,290 --> 01:10:38,380
more now back to exploring the bizarre

1383
01:10:44,050 --> 01:10:41,300
with two of the most in-depth refining

1384
01:10:45,729 --> 01:10:44,060
researchers in apparel your hosts

1385
01:10:51,070 --> 01:10:45,739
Timothy Rebecca Lee

1386
01:10:53,860 --> 01:10:51,080
Anton Schwartz all right welcome back to

1387
01:10:57,250 --> 01:10:53,870
the final segment of exploring bizarre

1388
01:11:01,209 --> 01:10:57,260
and tonight we have Walter Bosley with

1389
01:11:05,550 --> 01:11:01,219
us and so I want to talk a little bit

1390
01:11:08,370 --> 01:11:05,560
more Walter about the the whole

1391
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:08,380
possibility that you brought up that

1392
01:11:13,959 --> 01:11:10,850
what your dad may have experienced may

1393
01:11:18,820 --> 01:11:13,969
have been part of some kind of mind

1394
01:11:21,580 --> 01:11:18,830
control project and and and I and I

1395
01:11:25,000 --> 01:11:21,590
should point out also that you know the

1396
01:11:28,540 --> 01:11:25,010
we know about the CIA's MKULTRA and all

1397
01:11:32,890 --> 01:11:28,550
those but we only know just my neut part

1398
01:11:34,420 --> 01:11:32,900
of it because so much of the the

1399
01:11:38,709 --> 01:11:34,430
paperwork involving this was

1400
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:38,719
mysteriously destroyed at one point yeah

1401
01:11:44,229 --> 01:11:42,170
so I mean what what we do know is just a

1402
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:44,239
small segment I mean you know God knows

1403
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:47,210
you know just you know what kind of wild

1404
01:11:52,810 --> 01:11:48,890
things to do every what we what we do

1405
01:11:56,590 --> 01:11:52,820
know seems you know like the plot of bad

1406
01:12:02,229 --> 01:11:56,600
movies so now and like I said before you

1407
01:12:05,130 --> 01:12:02,239
know I had no idea that the military was

1408
01:12:10,270 --> 01:12:05,140
also involved in their own mind control

1409
01:12:12,340 --> 01:12:10,280
research and developments so what's the

1410
01:12:15,430 --> 01:12:12,350
possibility that you think and the

1411
01:12:16,430 --> 01:12:15,440
reasons that you know what had happened

1412
01:12:19,070 --> 01:12:16,440
to your dad

1413
01:12:23,480 --> 01:12:19,080
may have been some kind of for whatever

1414
01:12:26,260 --> 01:12:23,490
reason you know mind-control experiment

1415
01:12:31,720 --> 01:12:26,270
or what have you on him

1416
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:31,730
well I'm then that they definitely used

1417
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:37,050
the MKULTRA technology to attempt to

1418
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:40,170
suppress his memories of whatever it was

1419
01:12:48,110 --> 01:12:43,850
that happened you know that summer 1958

1420
01:12:53,480 --> 01:12:48,120
in eastern Arizona to him now

1421
01:12:57,920 --> 01:12:53,490
it's because it's possible that the

1422
01:13:01,580 --> 01:12:57,930
entire narrative that he would give was

1423
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:01,590
implanted you know that's why you know I

1424
01:13:07,820 --> 01:13:05,850
feel it's it's only right for me to

1425
01:13:12,020 --> 01:13:07,830
present that you know as I did in the

1426
01:13:14,690 --> 01:13:12,030
book it plant an implanted narrative or

1427
01:13:16,220 --> 01:13:14,700
a planted narrative is exactly some of

1428
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:16,230
the stuff they were working on one of

1429
01:13:22,250 --> 01:13:18,290
the things they were were trying to

1430
01:13:24,830 --> 01:13:22,260
achieve with MKULTRA okay when you look

1431
01:13:27,620 --> 01:13:24,840
at the MKULTRA history planted narrative

1432
01:13:30,860 --> 01:13:27,630
was one of the exact things that they

1433
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:30,870
were trying to do and suppressing memory

1434
01:13:36,590 --> 01:13:34,290
was another so here I have somebody

1435
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:36,600
who's essentially a superior officer by

1436
01:13:42,260 --> 01:13:39,690
mentor telling me that that's exactly

1437
01:13:45,580 --> 01:13:42,270
what they did to my dad when I go back

1438
01:13:48,020 --> 01:13:45,590
and you know analyze his behavior

1439
01:13:49,280 --> 01:13:48,030
throughout his life through the years I

1440
01:13:53,840 --> 01:13:49,290
knew him

1441
01:13:57,880 --> 01:13:53,850
it matches the descriptions of you know

1442
01:14:01,640 --> 01:13:57,890
other people who underwent this stuff

1443
01:14:03,710 --> 01:14:01,650
so at the minimum level I am convinced

1444
01:14:06,020 --> 01:14:03,720
that they absolutely applied this stuff

1445
01:14:08,180 --> 01:14:06,030
to him but you know it's possible that

1446
01:14:10,250 --> 01:14:08,190
the maximum level was that this whole

1447
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:10,260
thing was a plan in narrative except for

1448
01:14:15,980 --> 01:14:12,890
me personally the fact that my mentor

1449
01:14:21,260 --> 01:14:15,990
told me that his narrative was what

1450
01:14:24,380 --> 01:14:21,270
happened to me that just kind of throws

1451
01:14:29,390 --> 01:14:24,390
it in a spin I personally can't dismiss

1452
01:14:30,350 --> 01:14:29,400
it all as an MKULTRA fabrication mm-hmm

1453
01:14:32,800 --> 01:14:30,360
personally but

1454
01:14:36,430 --> 01:14:32,810
I can totally understand why the reader

1455
01:14:38,959 --> 01:14:36,440
objectives in one house but my life

1456
01:14:41,870 --> 01:14:38,969
experiences objective they only know

1457
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:41,880
through what I presented I can I totally

1458
01:14:47,180 --> 01:14:43,650
recognize why they could perfectly

1459
01:14:51,229 --> 01:14:47,190
accept it as an entail trip air force

1460
01:14:53,600 --> 01:14:51,239
fabrication to cover something else well

1461
01:14:55,490 --> 01:14:53,610
and that's had that was good we like you

1462
01:15:00,140 --> 01:14:55,500
in my next video my next question is

1463
01:15:01,729 --> 01:15:00,150
that okay why why do that to you know

1464
01:15:05,750 --> 01:15:01,739
why do that to your dad I mean you know

1465
01:15:07,729 --> 01:15:05,760
if he was you know like a good good good

1466
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:07,739
soldier you know doing doing what he was

1467
01:15:14,330 --> 01:15:12,330
supposed to you know an expert in uh you

1468
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:14,340
know several different fields you know

1469
01:15:22,419 --> 01:15:18,090
why would they then use him for some

1470
01:15:26,090 --> 01:15:22,429
kind of weird-ass mind-control

1471
01:15:27,500 --> 01:15:26,100
experiment you know and and then come up

1472
01:15:32,260 --> 01:15:27,510
with some kind of you know just just

1473
01:15:35,209 --> 01:15:32,270
totally off-the-wall story of you know

1474
01:15:38,060 --> 01:15:35,219
crashed airships and sub training you

1475
01:15:41,419 --> 01:15:38,070
know kingdoms and things like that

1476
01:15:42,859 --> 01:15:41,429
alright well let's go back to people say

1477
01:15:44,750 --> 01:15:42,869
well why would he be briefed on

1478
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:44,760
something like Roswell why would he be

1479
01:15:50,030 --> 01:15:46,530
involved in this well and he was in the

1480
01:15:53,629 --> 01:15:50,040
aviation medicine specialty that command

1481
01:15:57,410 --> 01:15:53,639
okay and it was US Air Force aviation

1482
01:16:00,890 --> 01:15:57,420
medicine command that was running the

1483
01:16:03,709 --> 01:16:00,900
air force MKULTRA technology development

1484
01:16:05,209 --> 01:16:03,719
okay so he was in the very command that

1485
01:16:06,649 --> 01:16:05,219
was playing this stuff that was

1486
01:16:11,229 --> 01:16:06,659
developing this stuff for the Air Force

1487
01:16:14,570 --> 01:16:11,239
so number one he would be a logical

1488
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:14,580
guinea pig you know it would be part of

1489
01:16:22,790 --> 01:16:20,250
his duties you know or it would be

1490
01:16:24,410 --> 01:16:22,800
logical that he would be selected being

1491
01:16:28,370 --> 01:16:24,420
personnel that's already in aviation

1492
01:16:31,310 --> 01:16:28,380
medicine right right to let whatever

1493
01:16:35,060 --> 01:16:31,320
happen to him and I I am convinced that

1494
01:16:38,050 --> 01:16:35,070
something happened in Arizona whatever

1495
01:16:42,370 --> 01:16:38,060
happened to him that they needed to

1496
01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:42,380
cover was

1497
01:16:48,919 --> 01:16:46,170
theoretically to them so important so

1498
01:16:52,640 --> 01:16:48,929
dire to national security that it was

1499
01:16:57,709 --> 01:16:52,650
worth planting this wild narrative into

1500
01:17:00,560 --> 01:16:57,719
his head to keep him from exposing you

1501
01:17:02,360 --> 01:17:00,570
know whatever this this was okay now you

1502
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:02,370
got to remember let's go back it's the

1503
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:05,370
late 1950s the cold really you know

1504
01:17:09,830 --> 01:17:08,250
cranked up okay where everybody's afraid

1505
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:09,840
that you know at any minute the Russians

1506
01:17:16,390 --> 01:17:12,570
could you know wipe us out or take over

1507
01:17:19,939 --> 01:17:16,400
the world and and when you're you know

1508
01:17:23,240 --> 01:17:19,949
dealing with either an attempt at man

1509
01:17:27,410 --> 01:17:23,250
space travel or as I say in the book by

1510
01:17:30,590 --> 01:17:27,420
1958 perhaps the the first steps towards

1511
01:17:33,860 --> 01:17:30,600
you know a a real secret space program

1512
01:17:35,959 --> 01:17:33,870
okay this would have been considered of

1513
01:17:38,990 --> 01:17:35,969
utmost importance

1514
01:17:40,850 --> 01:17:39,000
okay more important even than you know

1515
01:17:43,399 --> 01:17:40,860
people knowing where our missiles are

1516
01:17:46,610 --> 01:17:43,409
located but really from certain

1517
01:17:47,990 --> 01:17:46,620
perspectives so naturally from that

1518
01:17:50,390 --> 01:17:48,000
point of view you got to put yourself

1519
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:50,400
back in 1958 you can't look at this from

1520
01:17:56,390 --> 01:17:54,090
the eyes of 2017 or even 1978 okay you

1521
01:17:59,120 --> 01:17:56,400
got to go back to 1958 these guys had

1522
01:18:00,410 --> 01:17:59,130
this tool this MKULTRA tool right and

1523
01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:00,420
again I don't believe they were

1524
01:18:03,890 --> 01:18:01,770
developing this because they were a

1525
01:18:05,959 --> 01:18:03,900
bunch of nefarious mad scientist okay

1526
01:18:09,110 --> 01:18:05,969
that's that's for people who are just

1527
01:18:10,340 --> 01:18:09,120
paranoid and you know the end is near

1528
01:18:13,850 --> 01:18:10,350
and they're living out in the woods

1529
01:18:17,060 --> 01:18:13,860
gripping their guns okay I disagree with

1530
01:18:19,490 --> 01:18:17,070
those people um this was a tool that at

1531
01:18:23,930 --> 01:18:19,500
the time in their mindset within their

1532
01:18:27,290 --> 01:18:23,940
context in 1958 okay this was a tool to

1533
01:18:29,209 --> 01:18:27,300
use and so you know certainly they would

1534
01:18:31,250 --> 01:18:29,219
have learned after this oh crap we can't

1535
01:18:33,260 --> 01:18:31,260
do that it drives these people crazy or

1536
01:18:34,970 --> 01:18:33,270
you know this guy starts talking in his

1537
01:18:42,380 --> 01:18:34,980
son 30 years later write the damn book

1538
01:18:47,270 --> 01:18:42,390
about you know but you know so it could

1539
01:18:51,590 --> 01:18:47,280
be that they just thought that this was

1540
01:18:55,550 --> 01:18:51,600
the best tool they had at the time to

1541
01:18:57,910 --> 01:18:55,560
cover what really happened in Arizona

1542
01:19:01,520 --> 01:18:57,920
and you know like my mentor told me

1543
01:19:05,480 --> 01:19:01,530
really the suppression worked for you

1544
01:19:08,570 --> 01:19:05,490
know at least 15 years because if this

1545
01:19:13,420 --> 01:19:08,580
was done in 1958 you know he didn't

1546
01:19:16,550 --> 01:19:13,430
start talking about this till 1973 so

1547
01:19:19,550 --> 01:19:16,560
you know it started to break down after

1548
01:19:22,910 --> 01:19:19,560
15 years but maybe by then you know okay

1549
01:19:25,730 --> 01:19:22,920
so what we kept a tight lid on it for

1550
01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:25,740
that first five years of that first ten

1551
01:19:29,390 --> 01:19:27,450
years which we did more critical and

1552
01:19:31,340 --> 01:19:29,400
besides if he starts talking with the

1553
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:31,350
reason we've planted this wild narrative

1554
01:19:34,910 --> 01:19:32,970
in his head is so that it sounds wild

1555
01:19:36,710 --> 01:19:34,920
and crazy and no one will listen or

1556
01:19:41,780 --> 01:19:36,720
believe it mm-hmm

1557
01:19:46,340 --> 01:19:41,790
you know um well and you mentioned in

1558
01:19:49,550 --> 01:19:46,350
your book that your dad did seem to

1559
01:19:51,770 --> 01:19:49,560
exhibit the personality traits of

1560
01:19:57,260 --> 01:19:51,780
somebody who had been under the

1561
01:20:02,330 --> 01:19:57,270
influence of my control techniques um it

1562
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:02,340
was he was a medic depressive or coal

1563
01:20:06,740 --> 01:20:04,770
now he was never diagnosed with this you

1564
01:20:09,590 --> 01:20:06,750
know back in those days no men didn't go

1565
01:20:10,610 --> 01:20:09,600
to psychiatric counseling particularly

1566
01:20:15,350 --> 01:20:10,620
if you were in the national security

1567
01:20:17,840 --> 01:20:15,360
field I can tell even today you know you

1568
01:20:21,080 --> 01:20:17,850
tough it out you you I'm not speaking

1569
01:20:23,570 --> 01:20:21,090
for everybody but particularly my dad's

1570
01:20:25,460 --> 01:20:23,580
gay you know you didn't you just toughed

1571
01:20:26,690 --> 01:20:25,470
it out now yeah what they called

1572
01:20:30,560 --> 01:20:26,700
manic-depressive then they I believe

1573
01:20:33,950 --> 01:20:30,570
they called bipolar now me as I say in

1574
01:20:36,860 --> 01:20:33,960
the book you know my dad very probably

1575
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:36,870
had that on a lower level but whatever

1576
01:20:42,470 --> 01:20:39,930
they did to him with this MKULTRA stuff

1577
01:20:43,880 --> 01:20:42,480
to suppress and they they keyed it to

1578
01:20:46,640 --> 01:20:43,890
the moon and that's another thing I want

1579
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:46,650
to make a comment about they keyed it to

1580
01:20:49,400 --> 01:20:47,850
the cycles of the moon

1581
01:20:52,670 --> 01:20:49,410
specifically the full moon it would

1582
01:20:55,340 --> 01:20:52,680
reset every month of his life after that

1583
01:20:57,080 --> 01:20:55,350
yeah and that's well what I want to say

1584
01:20:58,850 --> 01:20:57,090
about that was they were always looking

1585
01:21:00,020 --> 01:20:58,860
when you look at the MKULTRA history one

1586
01:21:02,630 --> 01:21:00,030
of the things they're always looking for

1587
01:21:05,240 --> 01:21:02,640
was how can we keep this this

1588
01:21:07,970 --> 01:21:05,250
suppression locked in place and have it

1589
01:21:09,470 --> 01:21:07,980
be self-service so we don't have to keep

1590
01:21:11,660 --> 01:21:09,480
pulling the guy in here to suppress

1591
01:21:13,850 --> 01:21:11,670
what do we put in place that just

1592
01:21:17,300 --> 01:21:13,860
automatically removes the suppression

1593
01:21:19,730 --> 01:21:17,310
and I was told by my mentor that when

1594
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:19,740
they did the suppression mind technology

1595
01:21:23,300 --> 01:21:21,210
- and they keyed it to the full moon

1596
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:23,310
that every time a full moon would come

1597
01:21:27,500 --> 01:21:25,290
around it would be reactivated now I

1598
01:21:29,930 --> 01:21:27,510
married that with what I read in actual

1599
01:21:32,300 --> 01:21:29,940
in cables ultra history where they were

1600
01:21:34,430 --> 01:21:32,310
talking about how much they were looking

1601
01:21:37,250 --> 01:21:34,440
for a key as I say in the book I'm

1602
01:21:41,420 --> 01:21:37,260
convinced that the Air Force discovered

1603
01:21:43,340 --> 01:21:41,430
the key and that was a will heat to the

1604
01:21:45,800 --> 01:21:43,350
moon every time this man sees the full

1605
01:21:47,740 --> 01:21:45,810
moon now what I think is that what they

1606
01:21:50,450 --> 01:21:47,750
did to him going back to that

1607
01:21:53,600 --> 01:21:50,460
exacerbated whatever low level bipolar

1608
01:21:57,370 --> 01:21:53,610
he was you know he suffered naturally

1609
01:22:00,380 --> 01:21:57,380
mm-hmm and it just kind of made it worse

1610
01:22:03,620 --> 01:22:00,390
because my dad was a moody guy he would

1611
01:22:05,840 --> 01:22:03,630
and and you know as I say in the book

1612
01:22:07,670 --> 01:22:05,850
talk about personal experiences as a kid

1613
01:22:09,080 --> 01:22:07,680
you know you could be at Disneyland on

1614
01:22:10,580 --> 01:22:09,090
the most beautiful spring day and

1615
01:22:12,230 --> 01:22:10,590
everybody you know everything's you know

1616
01:22:14,000 --> 01:22:12,240
daisies and roses and everyone's having

1617
01:22:16,400 --> 01:22:14,010
a wonderful time and my dad's in a bad

1618
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:16,410
mood you know it was like and now he

1619
01:22:19,460 --> 01:22:17,970
wasn't one of those dads you see in the

1620
01:22:20,990 --> 01:22:19,470
movies that's you know yelling and

1621
01:22:22,520 --> 01:22:21,000
screaming and throwing beer bottles and

1622
01:22:24,950 --> 01:22:22,530
knocking everyone around and it was just

1623
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:24,960
this you know dad's in a pissy mood so

1624
01:22:28,850 --> 01:22:26,610
you kind of had to walk on eggshells and

1625
01:22:32,510 --> 01:22:28,860
then it would pass and he wasn't you

1626
01:22:34,040 --> 01:22:32,520
know outgoing you know nice guy but you

1627
01:22:35,750 --> 01:22:34,050
know when I look back on that within the

1628
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:35,760
context of what we're talking about here

1629
01:22:43,040 --> 01:22:40,050
that really stands out and really seems

1630
01:22:45,250 --> 01:22:43,050
to match what you know mkultra history

1631
01:22:49,100 --> 01:22:45,260
in the you know the case histories

1632
01:22:50,510 --> 01:22:49,110
present to us so you know some people

1633
01:22:53,090 --> 01:22:50,520
say well all this evidence is

1634
01:22:56,690 --> 01:22:53,100
circumstantial and contextual you'll

1635
01:22:58,910 --> 01:22:56,700
yeah you know there's a lot of people

1636
01:23:01,190 --> 01:22:58,920
rightfully in jail who are criminals

1637
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:01,200
because of circumstantial evidence you

1638
01:23:04,970 --> 01:23:03,570
know TV and theater and Hollywood have

1639
01:23:07,520 --> 01:23:04,980
convinced a bunch of people out there

1640
01:23:10,250 --> 01:23:07,530
that circumstantial evidence doesn't

1641
01:23:13,190 --> 01:23:10,260
count the silence I like that's a load

1642
01:23:15,260 --> 01:23:13,200
of BS there's been plenty of people

1643
01:23:17,570 --> 01:23:15,270
caught because of circumstantial

1644
01:23:20,090 --> 01:23:17,580
evidence and then you know or many of

1645
01:23:21,820 --> 01:23:20,100
them like oh damn it you got me you know

1646
01:23:23,180 --> 01:23:21,830
because of these circumstances

1647
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:23,190
circumstances

1648
01:23:28,700 --> 01:23:25,410
count they do mean something they are

1649
01:23:30,530 --> 01:23:28,710
valid and you know that that's what I

1650
01:23:32,240 --> 01:23:30,540
took of my dad's story were these

1651
01:23:34,700 --> 01:23:32,250
circumstances and I looked at the

1652
01:23:37,010 --> 01:23:34,710
context and I look at the known details

1653
01:23:39,370 --> 01:23:37,020
of what we have and you know all so I

1654
01:23:43,430 --> 01:23:39,380
look at what I learned in my career and

1655
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:43,440
you know it starts adding up but still I

1656
01:23:47,689 --> 01:23:45,210
present you know the multiple

1657
01:23:50,120 --> 01:23:47,699
possibilities and I let people decide

1658
01:23:54,260 --> 01:23:50,130
for themselves you know regardless of

1659
01:23:57,410 --> 01:23:54,270
what I think or I've concluded well and

1660
01:24:01,640 --> 01:23:57,420
I'm glad you did because it was like I

1661
01:24:04,040 --> 01:24:01,650
said that I had no idea that the

1662
01:24:08,000 --> 01:24:04,050
military would be doing their own

1663
01:24:10,550 --> 01:24:08,010
mind-control experience an experiment

1664
01:24:14,420 --> 01:24:10,560
which I mean now that you think about it

1665
01:24:15,950 --> 01:24:14,430
that just makes total sense oh sure but

1666
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:15,960
you know what are the other things and

1667
01:24:20,660 --> 01:24:18,449
and we're unfortunately rapidly running

1668
01:24:24,740 --> 01:24:20,670
out of time tonight but I just wanted to

1669
01:24:28,189 --> 01:24:24,750
a really quick ask you about this

1670
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:28,199
character named Wilson that your father

1671
01:24:33,229 --> 01:24:31,050
talked about and and I'm so glad that

1672
01:24:36,500 --> 01:24:33,239
you mentioned this in the book because

1673
01:24:40,550 --> 01:24:36,510
the the the fiction book that you

1674
01:24:41,870 --> 01:24:40,560
brought up involving Wilson was I mean

1675
01:24:44,060 --> 01:24:41,880
there's I think there's like three of

1676
01:24:45,950 --> 01:24:44,070
them written in the series and boy you

1677
01:24:48,040 --> 01:24:45,960
know nobody ever talks about those books

1678
01:24:50,780 --> 01:24:48,050
I discovered them years and years ago

1679
01:24:51,890 --> 01:24:50,790
but boy nobody ever talks about those

1680
01:24:56,330 --> 01:24:51,900
but I'm glad you did

1681
01:25:00,439 --> 01:24:56,340
Oh harbors and yeah just as he relieved

1682
01:25:04,970 --> 01:25:00,449
Genesis well the Harbinson books you

1683
01:25:08,030 --> 01:25:04,980
know talk about Wilson as he's kind of a

1684
01:25:10,280 --> 01:25:08,040
villain oh that's oh yeah you know but

1685
01:25:12,229 --> 01:25:10,290
it's interesting how Harbinson

1686
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:12,239
take on it and I would love to have had

1687
01:25:17,360 --> 01:25:14,250
a conversation or a verse Asian with him

1688
01:25:21,820 --> 01:25:17,370
about his source on Wilson because my

1689
01:25:26,540 --> 01:25:21,830
understanding my research in my sources

1690
01:25:28,729 --> 01:25:26,550
he's he's not that guy beyond being you

1691
01:25:30,140 --> 01:25:28,739
know my mentor said this about Wilson my

1692
01:25:31,669 --> 01:25:30,150
dad had started gibbering and about

1693
01:25:34,340 --> 01:25:31,679
Wilson when he was under heavy sedation

1694
01:25:35,500 --> 01:25:34,350
when he had a blood clot almost kill him

1695
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:35,510
in 1991

1696
01:25:39,550 --> 01:25:37,250
and he kept mentioning the name Wilson

1697
01:25:42,070 --> 01:25:39,560
Wilson and and so you know I got on the

1698
01:25:44,979 --> 01:25:42,080
phone after the visit and I asked my

1699
01:25:46,479 --> 01:25:44,989
mentor I said who's Wilson he says it's

1700
01:25:48,310 --> 01:25:46,489
your dad talking about Wilson I'm like

1701
01:25:50,860 --> 01:25:48,320
yet he goes is there anyone else in the

1702
01:25:52,750 --> 01:25:50,870
room no he goes well don't let him talk

1703
01:25:56,229 --> 01:25:52,760
about Wilson oh there's any woman else

1704
01:25:58,600 --> 01:25:56,239
in the room and when I see you I'll tell

1705
01:25:59,830 --> 01:25:58,610
you what I can so then when I saw him I

1706
01:26:02,320 --> 01:25:59,840
think like a you know a couple weeks

1707
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:02,330
later or so I asked him okay who is

1708
01:26:09,190 --> 01:26:06,050
Wilson and he told me that Wilson was

1709
01:26:13,570 --> 01:26:09,200
the most brilliant man in the world whom

1710
01:26:16,390 --> 01:26:13,580
you've never heard of hmm and as you

1711
01:26:19,030 --> 01:26:16,400
know I spoken and written much about

1712
01:26:21,640 --> 01:26:19,040
Wilson and the Wilsons because where he

1713
01:26:26,410 --> 01:26:21,650
comes from this line of curious

1714
01:26:28,270 --> 01:26:26,420
mysterious geniuses you know it and I've

1715
01:26:31,570 --> 01:26:28,280
spoken and written about them through

1716
01:26:37,150 --> 01:26:31,580
more than one book and I continue my my

1717
01:26:40,810 --> 01:26:37,160
pursuit of Wilson I mean and it seems to

1718
01:26:45,180 --> 01:26:40,820
me that wasn't there like you know

1719
01:26:49,690 --> 01:26:45,190
newspaper accounts of witnesses to these

1720
01:26:51,760 --> 01:26:49,700
early airship sightings where you know

1721
01:26:54,490 --> 01:26:51,770
people would come out and one guy you

1722
01:26:56,740 --> 01:26:54,500
know repeatedly so you know through

1723
01:26:59,140 --> 01:26:56,750
across the country identified himself as

1724
01:27:01,120 --> 01:26:59,150
Wilson yeah there were two there were

1725
01:27:03,100 --> 01:27:01,130
Tim Wilkins identified with the airship

1726
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:03,110
ministry one of them was actually one of

1727
01:27:10,150 --> 01:27:07,010
the airship pilots and absolutely he had

1728
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:10,160
very human you know when people say that

1729
01:27:13,840 --> 01:27:11,570
the 1890s era said mister is

1730
01:27:17,110 --> 01:27:13,850
extraterrestrials I just identified to

1731
01:27:18,850 --> 01:27:17,120
scream or shut them down could be s when

1732
01:27:22,330 --> 01:27:18,860
you look at the original thing they base

1733
01:27:26,020 --> 01:27:22,340
this all on the Aurora assumption Aurora

1734
01:27:29,260 --> 01:27:26,030
Texas was not an et the body was burned

1735
01:27:32,800 --> 01:27:29,270
beyond recognition one guy one guy said

1736
01:27:36,580 --> 01:27:32,810
maybe it's a spice man and everybody

1737
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:36,590
today just ran with that it was a human

1738
01:27:41,410 --> 01:27:39,650
thing but the Wilson back then you know

1739
01:27:42,850 --> 01:27:41,420
told the guy asked a guy to mail some

1740
01:27:44,380 --> 01:27:42,860
letters for him and told them if he'd do

1741
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:44,390
that that someday he would come take him

1742
01:27:49,060 --> 01:27:46,610
on a flight to South America and back in

1743
01:27:50,740 --> 01:27:49,070
the same day and

1744
01:27:52,839 --> 01:27:50,750
yeah so the Wilsons and there was a

1745
01:27:55,060 --> 01:27:52,849
Wilson in the Sonora Aero Club 40 years

1746
01:27:57,490 --> 01:27:55,070
before that that's will have to have

1747
01:28:02,649 --> 01:27:57,500
that conversation sometime because the

1748
01:28:06,790 --> 01:28:02,659
the whole Wilson part of it is just as

1749
01:28:08,910 --> 01:28:06,800
mysterious as the to a didn't am well

1750
01:28:12,550 --> 01:28:08,920
yeah well I mean especially considering

1751
01:28:15,790 --> 01:28:12,560
the story that your dad said about the

1752
01:28:17,560 --> 01:28:15,800
flying squares or the anti-gravity

1753
01:28:20,500 --> 01:28:17,570
squares yeah which is interesting

1754
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:20,510
because gosh who what was it was on the

1755
01:28:29,020 --> 01:28:25,760
radio Mysterio so one time he had a guy

1756
01:28:32,410 --> 01:28:29,030
on there that talked about something

1757
01:28:33,609 --> 01:28:32,420
similar yeah in fact I was there in the

1758
01:28:36,490 --> 01:28:33,619
studio

1759
01:28:38,740 --> 01:28:36,500
g'nite of it Joe and also if you're

1760
01:28:42,700 --> 01:28:38,750
familiar with Tyler who runs secure team

1761
01:28:44,740 --> 01:28:42,710
ten in YouTube in the last week ran a

1762
01:28:48,100 --> 01:28:44,750
video were someone captured video and

1763
01:28:50,050 --> 01:28:48,110
pictures of something that is pretty

1764
01:28:53,080 --> 01:28:50,060
much darn near exact what my dad had

1765
01:28:55,300 --> 01:28:53,090
described that was demonstrated you know

1766
01:28:58,060 --> 01:28:55,310
that he saw demonstrated in the late 50s

1767
01:29:01,149 --> 01:28:58,070
out here in California by George Air

1768
01:29:03,580 --> 01:29:01,159
Force Base by the Wilsons and it was a

1769
01:29:05,859 --> 01:29:03,590
flying platform and this thing that that

1770
01:29:09,580 --> 01:29:05,869
secure team ten Tyler and secure team

1771
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:09,590
ten had posted in a recent video for all

1772
01:29:14,350 --> 01:29:11,570
the world looks exactly like that so I

1773
01:29:16,260 --> 01:29:14,360
mend people check that out I'm all I'm

1774
01:29:19,270 --> 01:29:16,270
always suspicious though of anything

1775
01:29:21,819 --> 01:29:19,280
ufo-related that shows up on go to Betty

1776
01:29:24,189 --> 01:29:21,829
bunker you have to be you got a picnic

1777
01:29:25,780 --> 01:29:24,199
but you know out of all out of all the

1778
01:29:27,490 --> 01:29:25,790
things you know otherwise we just have

1779
01:29:29,530 --> 01:29:27,500
stories this is the first time

1780
01:29:34,350 --> 01:29:29,540
somebody's you know allegedly captured

1781
01:29:36,310 --> 01:29:34,360
something run a check judge for yourself

1782
01:29:39,550 --> 01:29:36,320
well you know it's interesting because

1783
01:29:42,129 --> 01:29:39,560
there was and and I'd have to go back

1784
01:29:44,830 --> 01:29:42,139
and try to find this guy's name but you

1785
01:29:47,910 --> 01:29:44,840
know there was a Russian scientist back

1786
01:29:49,839 --> 01:29:47,920
in the 50s who had some extremely

1787
01:29:55,540 --> 01:29:49,849
interesting though some people would

1788
01:29:59,669 --> 01:29:55,550
call it wild ideas about like insects

1789
01:30:02,320 --> 01:29:59,679
and the you know like they're they're a

1790
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:02,330
Titan covering

1791
01:30:06,460 --> 01:30:04,730
and there's like these pictures of these

1792
01:30:08,650 --> 01:30:06,470
devices that he made and they basically

1793
01:30:12,340 --> 01:30:08,660
release we're platforms for the handle

1794
01:30:15,100 --> 01:30:12,350
on him that that he covered in these

1795
01:30:18,040 --> 01:30:15,110
insect shells and he said it would

1796
01:30:20,170 --> 01:30:18,050
create like an antigravity effective

1797
01:30:24,310 --> 01:30:20,180
just see these pictures from the 50s

1798
01:30:26,950 --> 01:30:24,320
shows this guy floating around yeah I

1799
01:30:30,520 --> 01:30:26,960
have to opt try to find that information

1800
01:30:31,930 --> 01:30:30,530
again about him but you know when when

1801
01:30:33,820 --> 01:30:31,940
you start talking about those platforms

1802
01:30:36,880 --> 01:30:33,830
that just made me think of that because

1803
01:30:38,860 --> 01:30:36,890
you know this guy you know he had it

1804
01:30:41,980 --> 01:30:38,870
basically and maybe it was just a matter

1805
01:30:45,310 --> 01:30:41,990
of convenience for him you know had like

1806
01:30:47,200 --> 01:30:45,320
a square platform with just like a

1807
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:47,210
wooden handle attached to it for him to

1808
01:30:55,450 --> 01:30:48,770
hold on to it was like floating around

1809
01:30:58,180 --> 01:30:55,460
on it yeah well yeah Walter you know we

1810
01:30:59,920 --> 01:30:58,190
have about three and a half minutes left

1811
01:31:02,230 --> 01:30:59,930
to go in the show so I want to give you

1812
01:31:04,420 --> 01:31:02,240
the opportunity to let our listeners

1813
01:31:07,780 --> 01:31:04,430
know where they can find out more about

1814
01:31:11,440 --> 01:31:07,790
you you websites where they can find

1815
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:11,450
your books and so on and so on okay well

1816
01:31:17,710 --> 01:31:13,370
I have a blog called

1817
01:31:20,050 --> 01:31:17,720
empire of the wheel blog spot.com and I

1818
01:31:21,700 --> 01:31:20,060
go through spurts of posts sometimes a

1819
01:31:23,200 --> 01:31:21,710
long time without any then I go through

1820
01:31:26,010 --> 01:31:23,210
periods where there's several check that

1821
01:31:30,780 --> 01:31:26,020
out also you can find my books

1822
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:30,790
print-on-demand at Lulu calm Lu Lu calm

1823
01:31:37,660 --> 01:31:33,410
you can find my books up through

1824
01:31:39,250 --> 01:31:37,670
shimmering light on Kindle at Amazon but

1825
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:39,260
I'm not going to be releasing anything

1826
01:31:45,790 --> 01:31:42,410
new on Amazon Kindle anymore my most

1827
01:31:48,790 --> 01:31:45,800
recent book is secret missions three

1828
01:31:52,510 --> 01:31:48,800
destination Carcosa which is about

1829
01:31:55,630 --> 01:31:52,520
ambrose bierce and we'll have to discuss

1830
01:31:58,000 --> 01:31:55,640
that sometime and you can find me on

1831
01:32:01,210 --> 01:31:58,010
twitter and facebook just be aware that

1832
01:32:06,010 --> 01:32:01,220
I'm a man of merit of varied interests

1833
01:32:10,060 --> 01:32:06,020
I've been a weirdo since I was a kid not

1834
01:32:12,910 --> 01:32:10,070
just a 1/1 song guy I have interesting

1835
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:12,920
interests beyond this stuff so look for

1836
01:32:17,040 --> 01:32:14,650
me out there and

1837
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:17,050
I really enjoy talking with you again

1838
01:32:20,700 --> 01:32:19,330
well now okay now before I let you go

1839
01:32:21,900 --> 01:32:20,710
there I've been just you know we're

1840
01:32:26,580 --> 01:32:21,910
really quick I mean you've got some

1841
01:32:29,820 --> 01:32:26,590
really excellent fiction floating around

1842
01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:29,830
out there as well it's just you know you

1843
01:32:36,930 --> 01:32:33,370
want to give me some time okay sure yeah

1844
01:32:39,660 --> 01:32:36,940
I write pulp novels you can find them

1845
01:32:42,600 --> 01:32:39,670
also at lulu.com if you go to Lulu calm

1846
01:32:44,850 --> 01:32:42,610
and put in Walter Bosley you'll find you

1847
01:32:47,370 --> 01:32:44,860
know the page where I sell these books

1848
01:32:52,830 --> 01:32:47,380
through my publishing label lost current

1849
01:32:56,280 --> 01:32:52,840
library my pulp novels I explore my

1850
01:32:58,830 --> 01:32:56,290
interest in arcane occult Sciences and

1851
01:33:01,560 --> 01:32:58,840
then other strange things but I also

1852
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:01,570
write just good old-fashioned my new

1853
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:02,890
pulp that's going to be coming up next

1854
01:33:08,910 --> 01:33:06,130
week is just Biddle you know kind of

1855
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:08,920
like an Alistair MacLean novel you know

1856
01:33:14,850 --> 01:33:11,890
just men's action and with snowy

1857
01:33:20,100 --> 01:33:14,860
mountains and guns and you know lots of

1858
01:33:22,800 --> 01:33:20,110
thrills but you know I write a lot of

1859
01:33:26,010 --> 01:33:22,810
strange arcane stuff too and I've

1860
01:33:29,430 --> 01:33:26,020
written a time-travel novel which you

1861
01:33:34,650 --> 01:33:29,440
can also find there and there's going to

1862
01:33:35,550 --> 01:33:34,660
be a lot more fiction coming out so find

1863
01:33:39,420 --> 01:33:35,560
it all there

1864
01:33:43,080 --> 01:33:39,430
you know God's eyes I stepped in your

1865
01:33:48,360 --> 01:33:43,090
line there well unfortunately Walter f

1866
01:33:51,300 --> 01:33:48,370
related Tim's party so it he promised

1867
01:33:53,730 --> 01:33:51,310
that we could get in there and off it go

1868
01:33:59,709 --> 01:33:53,740
so Fleming had Tim Walter and I are

1869
01:34:06,189 --> 01:34:04,640
hello I think they're locking us out

1870
01:34:10,250 --> 01:34:06,199
[Music]

1871
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:10,260
wow that was the best birthday party

1872
01:34:14,930 --> 01:34:11,370
ever

1873
01:34:20,120 --> 01:34:14,940
these girls so wretchedly wouldn't eat

1874
01:34:23,450 --> 01:34:20,130
the champagne and this went all night

1875
01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:23,460
long pretty - did a great job with the

1876
01:34:30,660 --> 01:34:27,690
show over here and replay I'll watch it

1877
01:34:41,220 --> 01:34:33,450
it was a great night for me that's

1878
01:34:44,730 --> 01:34:41,230
regard you've been listening to explore

1879
01:34:48,210 --> 01:34:44,740
the bazaar with hosts Timothy Beckley

1880
01:34:50,490 --> 01:34:48,220
panting Swartz they're taking back the

1881
01:34:53,070 --> 01:34:50,500
night by jetting non-stop across the

1882
01:34:56,700 --> 01:34:53,080
cosmos in search of the truly bizarre

1883
01:34:59,760 --> 01:34:56,710
and totally explain with you as their

1884
01:35:00,660 --> 01:34:59,770
cold Thursday nights at 7:00 p.m.

1885
01:35:05,810 --> 01:35:00,670
Pacific

1886
01:35:08,790 --> 01:35:05,820
10:00 p.m. on the K cor digital radio

1887
01:35:11,880 --> 01:35:08,800
for more information on exploring the

1888
01:35:14,370 --> 01:35:11,890
bizarre and host Timothy Beckley and

1889
01:35:17,580 --> 01:35:14,380
since walks check out their K cor

1890
01:35:23,640 --> 01:35:17,590
digital radio network follow their

1891
01:35:33,310 --> 01:35:23,650
YouTube channel at mr UFO 1100 explore